My Micro Hydro Project

[Ktm rider]

I am actually
Not a new member. I have thousands of posts on here as “Scesnick” but I retired from work and that was the computer I posted from and signed up with. Now I can’t retrieve my old account

 

[deezler]

500 gpm?!? wow. Thats a lot of PVC. Total system cost?

Do you have a macro diagram of the whole system? For example, why do you need the coanda effect, where does it help make power? Why do the turbines have multiple valved inlets like that?

How long do you expect all that PVC to be durable and functional for? (is it UV stable)

 

[sd455dan]

Very cool project ... I always wanted to build some like that, is your stream flows all year round? where about are you located? is the winter is going to affect the stream flow or its components?

Those are good questions, Back in the early 1980's I helped set up and designed some control and switching circuitry for a micro hydro for friend.

He had over 150 feet of drop but State limited year around flow.
The state granted a specific amount of GPM that could be taken from the creek IIRC~15 gallons a minute.
System ran 24 7.
We learned a couple things running a Pelton wheel driving a GM alternator to a large bank of batteries and a 10K watt Trace now (Xantrex) inverter and the much lower flow but much more head than what the OPs system is.

First when the system is running Never shut the flow off quickly down at the Pelton wheel or turbine feed.
We did it once and it caused a hammering (spike) of the water pressure blowing the pipe up at the bottom.
Second if/when the pelton wheel or turbine is subject to varying loads.

You need a ballast of sorts in addition to charging batteries and feeding an inverter. Today lots of solutions available.

Back in 1984 not so much.

I built a sensing circuit that would switch in a 200 watt water heater load when the batteries voltage was at peak. Without this load switching the pelton wheel at times would "run away" and damage itself and the alternator bearings.
My friend sold the Off Grid place about 15 years later and other than bearings and batteries and filtering the water to not plug the chosen jet size the system was very trouble free. IF it hadn't been for the advent of OP amps and MOSFETS we would have not succeeded.

OP That looks like quite a system you have built.
If you have enough 24 7 water flow you should have more power than you need.

Threads like these make ne want to install solar and battery back up. Micro Hydro would be great but we don't have any here.

 

[Ktm rider]

KTMrider

A couple of questions about the project come to mind:
What voltage do the turbines generate?
what voltage do the solar panels generate?
Does the inverter have to 'play nice' with both inputs?
Does the voltage drop on a 360 foot run require increased wire size?
Is there GFCI/AFCI protection on the electrical outputs?
DC/AC outputs?

I have a 7500 watt solar array installed 3 years ago. I ran into voltage drop concerns
that required conductor upsizing due to inverter manufacturer requirements. Added to the costs.
The DC output on the array is 400v +/-.
And since the AC voltages at my place 'run hot' -125/250volts, I had to fine tune the inverter output.


I am following this with interest because in the future I will add battery bank to the system.
(I get yearly incentive from my utilty right now so when that expires the batteries will go in.)

Great job and good luck,

regards.

R

Yes my Growatt inverter has a 7kw input for the hydro and a 7kw input for the solar. ( although it is classified as a 12k )

500 gpm?!? wow. Thats a lot of PVC. Total system cost?

Do you have a macro diagram of the whole system? For example, why do you need the coanda effect, where does it help make power? Why do the turbines have multiple valved inlets like that?

How long do you expect all that PVC to be durable and functional for? (is it UV stable)

 

[Rockbadchild]

Those are good questions, Back in the early 1980's I helped set up and designed some control and switching circuitry for a micro hydro for friend.

He had over 150 feet of drop but State limited year around flow.
The state granted a specific amount of GPM that could be taken from the creek IIRC~15 gallons a minute.
System ran 24 7.
We learned a couple things running a Pelton wheel driving a GM alternator to a large bank of batteries and a 10K watt Trace now (Xantrex) inverter and the much lower flow but much more head than what the OPs system is.

First when the system is running Never shut the flow off quickly down at the Pelton wheel or turbine feed.
We did it once and it caused a hammering (spike) of the water pressure blowing the pipe up at the bottom.
Second if/when the pelton wheel or turbine is subject to varying loads.

You need a ballast of sorts in addition to charging batteries and feeding an inverter. Today lots of solutions available.

Back in 1984 not so much.

I built a sensing circuit that would switch in a 200 watt water heater load when the batteries voltage was at peak. Without this load switching the pelton wheel at times would "run away" and damage itself and the alternator bearings.
My friend sold the Off Grid place about 15 years later and other than bearings and batteries and filtering the water to not plug the chosen jet size the system was very trouble free. IF it hadn't been for the advent of OP amps and MOSFETS we would have not succeeded.

OP That looks like quite a system you have built.
If you have enough 24 7 water flow you should have more power than you need.

Threads like these make ne want to install solar and battery back up. Micro Hydro would be great but we don't have any here.

yeah my problem where I am from is most stream we have around stop flowing during the winter and in the middle of the summer, that why I was wondering about Ops situation but looks like he has the best of both worlds.

 

[Ktm rider]

I don’t have a diagram. The coanda screen is simply to keep any and all debris out of the penstock and the turbines. Coanda screen is well worth the money to protect your turbines.
The turbines were designed for 500+gpm, so at maximum flow all eight valves( jets ) will be open. As the flow decreases towards summer you close the jets according to the flow you have to obtain optimal pressure to spin the turgo wheel.
As far as the PVC, all the penstock will be buried so no worries about UV damage or falling trees and stuff like that. The turbines and all the piping for the turbines will be I closed in a powerhouse eventually. I just haven’t gotten that far yet.
As far as system cost. Well, that depends on what u want to achieve and how you want to utilize your grid power. I also have 6 lifepo4 batteries that were the most expensive part of the whole system. ( see pic ) I saved about 5k by pouring my own concrete coanda box. I also dug around on eBay and found the double wye fitting ( where the pipe sits into two for the turbines ) it was around 1k but I got really lucky and found that one for $150.
Right now I would guess I have a little over 20k in the whole thing. That’s all the 1,000 feet of penstock (which I also got a great deal on ) both turbines, the inverter and the batteries. Then I also had a good bit in concrete and other fitting and such.

 

[Oaktree]

I would love to be able to experiment with small scale hydro. I even have a small, fast-moving river as my back property line. The downside is that it's quite a ways back...it would take decades to recover just the cost of the wiring from the river to the house, let alone any of the generating equipment.

 

[cqaigy2]

I would love to be able to experiment with small scale hydro. I even have a small, fast-moving river as my back property line. The downside is that it's quite a ways back...it would take decades to recover just the cost of the wiring from the river to the house, let alone any of the generating equipment.

Ya, it would be fun, but you and i would have to look at it like a hobby. Kinda like fishing or hunting, and trying to make that pay for itself.

 

[Ktm rider]

I would love to be able to experiment with small scale hydro. I even have a small, fast-moving river as my back property line. The downside is that it's quite a ways back...it would take decades to recover just the cost of the wiring from the river to the house, let alone any of the generating equipment.

How far is quite a ways ? My turbines produces A/C power ( AC wild) and can be a great distances from the point of use

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Wow, I'm watching. I guess my questions are aimed at the hydro dynamics of the system.

How much does the velocity of the flow coming down effect the pressure or speed of the turbines vs just the 60' head? Wouldn't it be best to have a smooth as can be transition from the main downtube to the turbines to let the velocity help? or am I thinking wrong? It's late. My thinking cap already went to bed.

I will be watching!