LS MT357 starts poorly after sitting for a month

[PeteN]

I haven't started the MT357 for 5 weeks and went to start it with outside temps around 30 F. Tractor sits inside an unheated pole shed with a trickle charger on the battery. Cranked over fine but had at least 3 failed starts. Then when it did try to run it had a few loud combustion knocks and killed. Next start the same loud knocks and then it kept running. Seemed to be fine after that and restarted normally the rest of the day. I know last winter I didn't run it for at least 3 weeks and didn't experience this issue. No faults occurred during this event. I'll be interested to see if this is a pattern or just an anomaly. Tractor has around 50hrs on it and does have conditioned winter fuel.

 

[Roadworthy]

Do you have glow plugs? Are they getting power? Are they still good?

 

[PeteN]

This model does have glow plugs and there is an indicator light showing that at least a request was made for their use.

 

[5030]

Neither of my M9's start like it's 70 degrees out when it's at 30. being a diesel engine and compression ignition, cold cylinders will always balk a bit. Fact of life.

 

[thepumpguysc]

U could of had a fuel bleed back issue AND some burnt glow plugs.. Either one of those singled out will give u a very slow/hard start.. but together, it would make for A REALLY POOR STARTING ENGINE..
Time to pull out a 10mm socket..(usually the size of the glow plugs)

 

[CobyRupert]

Neither of my M9's start like it's 70 degrees out when it's at 30. being a diesel engine and compression ignition, cold cylinders will always balk a bit. Fact of life.

Especially if the glow plugs aren’t working.
Does white smoke roll out of stack when cranking?

I always wonder about water condensation in the tank settling to the bottom of the tank (or filter) over time. That those few drops that form every day, but one doesn’t notice when starting every day, collect and compile.
..but they may not show up as a hiccup until a few second after starting, maybe..

Also, what is throttle position when you attempt to start?

 

[Avenger]

I doubt it was the glow plugs. It does sound like a cold start, but also sounds like too much fuel. You might have had a leaky injector that slowly dripped fuel into the combustion chamber over the weeks. Once you tried to start it, it had to burn that fuel, and the fuel being sprayed by the injectors. Too much fuel and being cold = knocking. Well, until the fuel is burned, then normal operations. Its a good idea to start your machines every few weeks.

 

[Cycledude]

At 30 degrees mine will start but sometimes it will act sort of like yours did today, but if I plugin the block heater for a half hour or more it will start much better so that’s what I usually do, if it’s below zero I prefer to have it plugged for a few hours before starting.

 

[PeteN]

I doubt it was the glow plugs. It does sound like a cold start, but also sounds like too much fuel. You might have had a leaky injector that slowly dripped fuel into the combustion chamber over the weeks. Once you tried to start it, it had to burn that fuel, and the fuel being sprayed by the injectors. Too much fuel and being cold = knocking. Well, until the fuel is burned, then normal operations. Its a good idea to start your machines every few weeks.

I was thinking in this same direction. I'll let it sit for a week or so and see what happens. I know last winter I let it sit for more than 2 weeks and it started normally even at a colder temp. Between the fuel jelling posts and this type of an issue it makes me glad I kept my 1972 model gasoline fueled 2020. I can let that tractor sit for 6 months-1 year and it starts right up like I just ran it yesterday.

 

[5030]

U could of had a fuel bleed back issue AND some burnt glow plugs.. Either one of those singled out will give u a very slow/hard start.. but together, it would make for A REALLY POOR STARTING ENGINE..
Time to pull out a 10mm socket..(usually the size of the glow plugs)

I was under the understanding that at least on my Kubota's, that when starting, the fuel rack was at 100% and then retarded to the pre set throttle position when the rpm increased. I know on a Cat engine, it works that way. Crank speed is everything too. The faster it cranks the more compression heat is built, the easier it starts.

 

[Cycledude]

Diesel engines usually don’t like cold weather when starting but I have operated a couple New Holland Diesel engines that sat outside overnight when it was 10 below zero and with glowplug use they would start almost instantly and not even smoke !

 

[ruffdog]

This model does have glow plugs and there is an indicator light showing that at least a request was made for their use.

About how many seconds were the glow plugs cycled before trying to start? Did you cycle them a second time?

 

[PeteN]

About how many seconds were the glow plugs cycled before trying to start? Did you cycle them a second time?

I'd guess the light on the dash was on around 20 sec before I tried to crank it the first time which resulted in a failed start. I did not turn the key off and on again after the start but I've been told from some of the diesel techs at work that on most diesels the glow plugs stay energized beyond the dash light illumination into the start and for a short time after the engine is running. Not sure what happens to this sequence during a failed start though.

 

[thepumpguysc]

When the lite goes off, so doesn’t the power..
U have diesel techs at work and ur asking questions here.??
The more u cycle the gp’s, the hotter the cylinders get..

 

[5030]

Especially if the glow plugs aren’t working.

Mine work fine. No issue there at all.

 

[Torvy]

Lesson here: never go 5 whole weeks without doing some tractoring.

 

[Cycledude]

I'd guess the light on the dash was on around 20 sec before I tried to crank it the first time which resulted in a failed start. I did not turn the key off and on again after the start but I've been told from some of the diesel techs at work that on most diesels the glow plugs stay energized beyond the dash light illumination into the start and for a short time after the engine is running. Not sure what happens to this sequence during a failed start though.

I’m guessing your 357 glow plugs work about the same as my 4155 glow plugs, the amount of time the glow plugs stay on varies by temperature, about the longest mine stay lite is about 10 seconds then the light goes out and I crank the engine and it starts. If you start cranking before the light goes out the glow plugs probably won’t be hot enough so it might not start as easily as it could.

 

[5030]

Having old school Kubota's. mine stay on as long as I hold the key on the middle position.

 

[PeteN]

When the lite goes off, so doesn’t the power..
U have diesel techs at work and ur asking questions here.??
The more u cycle the gp’s, the hotter the cylinders get..

I do work with people that work on diesels but they are marine diesels which rarely get run below 32F. Just looking for comparative product knowledge.

 

[PeteN]

Update. Let the tractor sit for 2+ weeks and tried a restart. No battery tender during this time and the temps were even colder (20F) but tractor is still inside an unheated pole shed. After the glow plug light on the dash went out I waited another 10-15 seconds before a start. Engine lit right up like it normally does, hot or cold. No combustion knocking but it did have a little rpm surge at idle that settled out after a short time (I have seen this before). The initial problem of hard starting may have been a combination of not letting the glow plugs get hot enough or just an ECU glitch. I'm thinking the combustion knock I heard was probably due to the fuel injected during the failed starts. Either way it doesn't seem to be a regular repeatable problem.