Doorman’s next big adventure

[Doorman63]

We currently have some property in southern Illinois that we refer to as “the farm”. We don’t grow anything there (yet) but the term/name has stuck.

Currently have a 40x60 barn/barndomium that was on the property when we bought it almost 3yrs ago.


My father in law sold his home in southern Michigan late last year and is currently “homeless”……staying in his 28’ camper for the winter outside Orlando Florida. He approached my wife and I shortly after and asked us to find him a place close by our farm that he could stay in when he wasn't in Florida.

He gave my wife some of her inheritance to use towards funding the house.
We looked in a few towns within 20 miles of our place and never found the “one”. The thought of maintaining one more piece of property never appealed to me…..and that lead us to our current plan.

We’re gonna build a 24x40 barn/barndo for him on our current property. Ultimately it will be my wife’s she shed/barn for her future chickens/goats/mini cows.



More info to follow

 

[Doorman63]

Outline of our property and crappy box drawn with approx location of the new building.

New building is about 100’ from existing building

 

[Doorman63]

Utilities

Water
Tapping into existing water line in our current building.
Water company wanted approx $2000 for a new meter by the road….approx 900’ away.

Tapping into existing water should cost approx $300


Electric
A new pole/meter/security light/200 amp disconnect approx 150’ from existing pile is about $1900.
The pole has to be installed no more than 20’ from a gravel drive……current drive will need to be extended approx 150’. Estimating 800-1000 for the stone/fabric.

Septic
We initially thought we’d need to install a system similar to what our current building has. That is approx $6500. When my septic guy came out and looked at the sight and listened to our usage he recommended a different set up.
100 gallon tank with a grinder pump and running 2” pipe to our existing tank….$3200

Other “costs” so far

2” closed cell spray foam on walls/ceiling $7200

1000sq ft of drywall mud/tape/painted…$1700
Drywall hung be me.

Plenty of other things we’ve napkin priced out…..nothing set in stone yet……wife did buy a bathroom vanity!

Total budget is between 60-70,000.
Looks like we will be smack in the middle!

 

[hosspuller]

Septic pump is to be avoided in my experience. I would spend the money for a separate system. Consider power outage, pump issues, extra load on existing system, Pump issues... replacement pump. ... did I say pump issues ?

 

[Doorman63]

The part of Illinois we are in an aerobic treatment plant is the typical system.
Tank/aerator/outflow pipe to a creek


In the three years of ownership we’ve spent $400 to repair it. When we bought the place the aerator pump was broke and I didn’t know better.
Based on one person using it a few months a year and understanding the pros/cons I’m willing to take the gamble.

 

[5030]

Better check the local zoning (if any), They are not allowed here.

 

[LouNY]

I'd build taller and bigger, any thoughts about just backing the 28 ft'er inside for living quarters.
If not "allowed" by codes, just outlaw it. Out of sight out of mind.
A 10 ft tall door is marginal for many larger tractors, an 11 or 12' will clear most all.
I like a 12'x12' door or even 14' wide.

 

[5030]

I'd build taller and bigger, any thoughts about just backing the 28 ft'er inside for living quarters.
If not "allowed" by codes, just outlaw it. Out of sight out of mind.
A 10 ft tall door is marginal for many larger tractors, an 11 or 12' will clear most all.
I like a 12'x12' door or even 14' wide.

The issue with that is the snooping around zoning officials. You get caught, you'll wish you had complied and the 'Land of Lincoln' is noted for strict zoning codes among other unsavory stuff.

 

[Doorman63]

Better check the local zoning (if any), They are not allowed here.

My septic contractor who is licensed says this system falls outside “code”.

Technically we aren’t installing a new system-just adding to existing.

He’s gotta warranty the system. My neighbor (who has excavated stuff for this contractor and uses him for his own home) considers him an honest man……he could’ve installed a $6500 system but recommended against it. Hard to argue with that.

 

[Doorman63]

I'd build taller and bigger, any thoughts about just backing the 28 ft'er inside for living quarters.
If not "allowed" by codes, just outlaw it. Out of sight out of mind.
A 10 ft tall door is marginal for many larger tractors, an 11 or 12' will clear most all.
I like a 12'x12' door or even 14' wide.

We don’t want bigger or taller Lou…..let me clarify….the WIFE doesn’t want bigger/taller.

 

[Doorman63]

The issue with that is the snooping around zoning officials. You get caught, you'll wish you had complied and the 'Land of Lincoln' is noted for strict zoning codes among other unsavory stuff.

No real zoning. It’s all Ag around us for miles.

 

[Doorman63]

We’ve paid our 1/3 deposit and signed our contract for the shell/slab.

Slab work is supposed to start in February sometime.

5.5” slab with wet set post bases.

Plan is to have contractor excavate, set forms, I come in and do under slab plumbing and electric. He will then pour slab and set post anchors.

His time frame from start-finish is approx 3 weeks work time from excavation to finishing the shell. His quote does include a stone base for the slab. When he did a site visit we don’t expect more stone to be needed but IF it is he will pass cost directly to us and spread stone no charge.


Wife picked out the sectional door for the barn. Of course we know who will be doing the install!

 

[5030]

No real zoning. It’s all Ag around us for miles.

Keep on mind that there are different ag zonings as well. There is ag1 ag 2 and reserve ag. If I were you (and I'm not), I'd be checking with your local township officials before doing anything. Nothing worse than embarking on any project and then finding out you are not in compliance and have to demo what you did or pay a healthy fine.

Just so happens my wife is the chair of the local zoning board here so I get to observe the grief. here at least people think (wrongly) they can do whatever they want and that isn't the case at all.

Zoning protects property values and keeps the riff raff out. No one wants a mobile home next to a 300 grand house, at least not here.

The fines here start at 5 grand and go up, way up.

Just a word to the wise, nothing more.

 

[Doorman63]

Keep on mind that there are different ag zonings as well. There is ag1 ag 2 and reserve ag. If I were you (and I'm not), I'd be checking with your local township officials before doing anything. Nothing worse than embarking on any project and then finding out you are not in compliance and have to demo what you did or pay a healthy fine.

Just so happens my wife is the chair of the local zoning board here so I get to observe the grief. here at least people think (wrongly) they can do whatever they want and that isn't the case at all.

Zoning protects property values and keeps the riff raff out. No one wants a mobile home next to a 300 grand house, at least not here.

The fines here start at 5 grand and go up, way up.

Just a word to the wise, nothing more.

A few phone calls to find out the do’s and dont’s can’t hurt.

Thanks for the advice

 

[3gunr]

Glad my farm is in NE MO i can do whatever i want.

 

[ovrszd]

I highly, highly, recommend insulating under the concrete with 2" foamboard. I also highly, highly recommend installing hydronic heat piping in the floor. The piping will cost you $500-ish. Can't add later. By your descriptions this building will be an all season structure.

I'd also recommend the slab have poured footings all the way around the outside. Then 2x6 stud build the structure. Initially you will think that's too expensive. But after you pencil it all, especially since you are finishing the inside, you'll see that it's very competitive.

I'm a bit concerned about your insulation description. Everyone here says you will create a moisture problem within the structure if you spray foam everything. It's recommended to do 2" spray foam on the walls. Then blow in Cellulose or fiberglass R-45 minimum in the ceiling.

This is definitely a worthwhile project to assist your FIL and fulfill a long term need for your wife.

 

[Doorman63]

I highly, highly, recommend insulating under the concrete with 2" foamboard. I also highly, highly recommend installing hydronic heat piping in the floor. The piping will cost you $500-ish. Can't add later. By your descriptions this building will be an all season structure.

I'd also recommend the slab have poured footings all the way around the outside. Then 2x6 stud build the structure. Initially you will think that's too expensive. But after you pencil it all, especially since you are finishing the inside, you'll see that it's very competitive.

I'm a bit concerned about your insulation description. Everyone here says you will create a moisture problem within the structure if you spray foam everything. It's recommended to do 2" spray foam on the walls. Then blow in Cellulose or fiberglass R-45 minimum in the ceiling.

This is definitely a worthwhile project to assist your FIL and fulfill a long term need for your wife.

It’s hard to justify floor heat.
Typical winter use will be very sporadic. Under slab insulation has been discussed

Our ceiling will be exposed. The plan is to paint directly on the 2” of spray foam (white, dry fall paint) to keep the “house” side bigger feeling

I realize an air exchange system/dehumidifier may be necessary. Current plan is a mini split system of approx 12,000 btu with some supplemental heat in the bathroom. It’s what our current “barndo” on the property has and it seems to work fairly well.

 

[Doorman63]

This years “schedule” for father in law is as follows

Illinois-May thru mid June

Travel to Montana/Wyoming/etc June-August

Illinois- Sept thru early Nov

Florida-Nov thru April

Very sporadic weekend use of the “house” side of the new building the rest of the year.


Not sure how efficient slab heat would be for weekend use only.

Currently we drain all water, shut off hot water heater and set mini splits to their lowest temp (60) when we leave on Sunday.

 

[ovrszd]

It’s hard to justify floor heat.
Typical winter use will be very sporadic. Under slab insulation has been discussed

Our ceiling will be exposed. The plan is to paint directly on the 2” of spray foam (white, dry fall paint) to keep the “house” side bigger feeling

I realize an air exchange system/dehumidifier may be necessary. Current plan is a mini split system of approx 12,000 btu with some supplemental heat in the bathroom. It’s what our current “barndo” on the property has and it seems to work fairly well.

I understand the floor heat hesitation. I'll say, if you insulate the floor, definite lay the piping. But with your sporadic use, don't insulate the floor just so you can lay the piping. The insulation is the expensive part. Personally, in our location I wouldn't pour a slab with all season use intended without insulating it.

My BIL foamed his exposed ceiling. Friend of mine used a thermal camera and photographed it at night. The heat loss was significant. Closed Cell Foam has an R value of 5-6 per inch. So you will have an R value of 10-12. It needs to be 40-60. Insulation is the best return on investment you can do in an all season structure. A close second is good quality doors/windows.

The cost of an air exchange system/dehumidifier might be better spent in a varied insulation path. Maybe a builder will chime in. Can't remember the name for trusses that are "vaulted"? That might be an option to get a spacious feeling and still allow appropriate ceiling insulation to get the R value you need.

Mini splits have became much more efficient and are an easy to install system. I don't know about 12K btu for 960 sq ft of space. Maybe someone with more technical experience can address that.

I'm anxious to see what you build. Hopefully you'll keep us posted!!!

 

[ovrszd]

This years “schedule” for father in law is as follows

Illinois-May thru mid June

Travel to Montana/Wyoming/etc June-August

Illinois- Sept thru early Nov

Florida-Nov thru April

Very sporadic weekend use of the “house” side of the new building the rest of the year.


Not sure how efficient slab heat would be for weekend use only.

Currently we drain all water, shut off hot water heater and set mini splits to their lowest temp (60) when we leave on Sunday.

Slab heat is NOT efficient for sporadic use. Not at all. Changing the temp within a heated building by 1 or 2 degrees may take 24hrs.

You would need to fill the piping with an anti-freeze fluid of some kind.

In sub freezing temps it would take floor heat 2-3 days to stabilize to a livable temp (70F).