Post COVID CUT tractoring “truths”

[rScotty]

These are my opinions. There are tons of newbees getting into CUTs and hobby farms; I think it is time to review some “facts”. At the very least I look at this like PCs now - buy what works for YOU!!

“Never ending ‘add this’”. I was on a budget of $25k in 2019 and made it. Just barely. Cab? Nice to have, would have added $5k or more and weight (see below). More hp? I bought 35; mine was available in 40 (same machine otherwise) for $2k more; couldn’t stay in budget. Weight? Frame? Even more hp. See next comment

“Get as big as you can” aka “get one size bigger than what you think you need”. Not for me. I’m a hobby farmer. With 14 acres of prairie to mow and generally keep up with I chose 35hp hst. The perfect machine for me. Would I like to have more hp? Once in a blue moon when grass gets really high and I have to slow down, but so what? Doesn’t affect loader work. And a bigger frame to allow more loader capacity isn’t really a need either (besides I bought kioti with best in class lift already). An extra hour added to 12 hours of mowing 4-5x/year is negligible. Besides I LIKE riding and using my machine!!

“Non-tractor considerations”

“Truck”. I have a 2005 small block f150. I have no plans or other need to replace it. But I can only pull 6700#. Going larger frame or bigger trailer etc would mean a different truck if I EVER need to pull it

“Trailer”. For me 7k is enough. Sure 10k is nicer. And 14k as well. But also heavier and this impacts total towing weight (see truck comments above) plus more $.

“Dealer importance”. I’ve been back twice in 5 years. Didn’t and don’t care. It’s a hobby farm; I don’t need to rely on my dealer nor build a relationship. My CUT is not used for my livelihood and if I don’t have it for a couple of weeks it is simply an inconvenience not a problem. I bought the best deal and shooed dealers until I got it.

“Resale”. I didn’t and don’t care. Some do. For me I wanted a machine to last for 20 years not to trade out like a car (which I don’t do either). Besides kioti sells (or sold) for 80% of a similar kubota new. Most of them near me sell for 80% of similar kubota used. So yes they resell for less but they cost less up front and retain about the same overall percentage value.

“Weight vs affordability.” I bought the kioti ck3510. Love it. Sure I’d like to have had the dk for more weight and larger frame. But extra $ and extra weight driving me to a bigger trailer for more $ and a new truck for more $

“Don’t buy new, buy used implements”. Have you really looked lately - like in the last 6 months?They aren’t the same prices they were 5 years ago; heck not even the same price as 1 year ago. And availability isn’t good either; people recognize what they have and are hanging onto them, or selling for extra $. It may still be cheaper to buy used but that’s IF you can find it.

“Xxx hasn’t been around as long as JD or Kubota.” So what. For CUTs those names aren’t the same as they were nor the same as their real Ag machines. The one I chose - kioti - has been in the US for more than 30 years; I’ll likely have left my machine to my survivors in 30 years. And EVERY brand has recalls, detractors, supporters, and (especially since 2021) parts issues.

Interesting opinions. Since opinions interest you - and all these are the 50/50 type - consider deliberately making each decision the other way next time you buy. Then reverse and repeat. Eliminate the obvious mistakes as you go. It's how we learn.

rScotty

 

[Ian618]

These are my opinions. There are tons of newbees getting into CUTs and hobby farms; I think it is time to review some “facts”. At the very least I look at this like PCs now - buy what works for YOU!!

“Never ending ‘add this’”. I was on a budget of $25k in 2019 and made it. Just barely. Cab? Nice to have, would have added $5k or more and weight (see below). More hp? I bought 35; mine was available in 40 (same machine otherwise) for $2k more; couldn’t stay in budget. Weight? Frame? Even more hp. See next comment

“Get as big as you can” aka “get one size bigger than what you think you need”. Not for me. I’m a hobby farmer. With 14 acres of prairie to mow and generally keep up with I chose 35hp hst. The perfect machine for me. Would I like to have more hp? Once in a blue moon when grass gets really high and I have to slow down, but so what? Doesn’t affect loader work. And a bigger frame to allow more loader capacity isn’t really a need either (besides I bought kioti with best in class lift already). An extra hour added to 12 hours of mowing 4-5x/year is negligible. Besides I LIKE riding and using my machine!!

“Non-tractor considerations”

“Truck”. I have a 2005 small block f150. I have no plans or other need to replace it. But I can only pull 6700#. Going larger frame or bigger trailer etc would mean a different truck if I EVER need to pull it

“Trailer”. For me 7k is enough. Sure 10k is nicer. And 14k as well. But also heavier and this impacts total towing weight (see truck comments above) plus more $.

“Dealer importance”. I’ve been back twice in 5 years. Didn’t and don’t care. It’s a hobby farm; I don’t need to rely on my dealer nor build a relationship. My CUT is not used for my livelihood and if I don’t have it for a couple of weeks it is simply an inconvenience not a problem. I bought the best deal and shooed dealers until I got it.

“Resale”. I didn’t and don’t care. Some do. For me I wanted a machine to last for 20 years not to trade out like a car (which I don’t do either). Besides kioti sells (or sold) for 80% of a similar kubota new. Most of them near me sell for 80% of similar kubota used. So yes they resell for less but they cost less up front and retain about the same overall percentage value.

“Weight vs affordability.” I bought the kioti ck3510. Love it. Sure I’d like to have had the dk for more weight and larger frame. But extra $ and extra weight driving me to a bigger trailer for more $ and a new truck for more $

“Don’t buy new, buy used implements”. Have you really looked lately - like in the last 6 months?They aren’t the same prices they were 5 years ago; heck not even the same price as 1 year ago. And availability isn’t good either; people recognize what they have and are hanging onto them, or selling for extra $. It may still be cheaper to buy used but that’s IF you can find it.

“Xxx hasn’t been around as long as JD or Kubota.” So what. For CUTs those names aren’t the same as they were nor the same as their real Ag machines. The one I chose - kioti - has been in the US for more than 30 years; I’ll likely have left my machine to my survivors in 30 years. And EVERY brand has recalls, detractors, supporters, and (especially since 2021) parts issues.

Bravo

 

[Yander]

All of these just reflect the limited budget. Spending just slightly more would have eliminated all of these compromises

I didn't read "compromise" I read wisdom. Why buy more than you need especially when it causes the snow ball of spending affect for other equipment to haul a larger rig?

 

[Yander]

This comment doesn't apply to all JD guys but often those guys are what I call "Image" guys. They have an image to uphold and wouldn't get caught dead without a green tractor. I have a BIL like this.

It bugs me to see that. I know there are plenty of JD guys who buy for other than image so don't get your undies in a bunch.

You guys who are the image guys, you know who you are.

 

[Williy]

I read about a lot of tractors then I finally decided to try
one out. It was the one that I have it was so easy to
operate and all the controls were at your finger tips
and wife said get a cab that's how I ended up with the
tractor that I have and I wouldn't change for anything.
I don't care if it would take me 2 or 3 days to dig up a
stump with the backhoe I have the time (it don't take
that long) only aprox 111 hrs no problems and having
the cab keeps me warm and no dust and heard some
people have hard steering I can steer with one finger.
One thing is if you own a tractor and attachments make
sure that you grease and keep the maintenance up or
they may not be working when you need them and grease
is a lot cheaper than repairs!

willy

 

[Beeenvenue]

Interesting opinions. Since opinions interest you - and all these are the 50/50 type - consider deliberately making each decision the other way next time you buy. Then reverse and repeat. Eliminate the obvious mistakes as you go. It's how we learn.

rScotty

Except they aren’t and that’s what makes so many tbn and other experts frustrating. The advice is hardly ever binary between two equals, it is almost always “$$more$$”

Add this - how many of those features?
Dealer - almost infinite variety of choices
More weight? How much is enough?
Bigger? How big? By definition whatever I choose I should have bought one bigger
Buy a new truck/trailer too? How big and how many features?
Etc

Besides, as I mentioned I don’t intend to ever buy another machine. If I did my homework I got a 30 year tractor and doubt at age 88 I’ll be in the market for my second machine to experiment with.

 

[oosik]

We moved onto the property in 1982. That year I bought a brand new Ford 1700. After 27 years( 2009 ) I had completed all the projects I could with the Ford. I traded in the Ford and got a Kubota M6040. Now I'm into larger projects.

 

[rScotty]

We moved onto the property in 1982. That year I bought a brand new Ford 1700. After 27 years( 2009 ) I had completed all the projects I could with the Ford. I traded in the Ford and got a Kubota M6040. Now I'm into larger projects.

We did roughly the same. Started with a small compact 4wd and used it a bunch. Over the years our land stayed the same but the tractors and projects got larger. That's when we discovered that big tractors can do little jobs, but the reverse isn't true.

Eventually we get older and the little machines are beginning to look convenient again.

I can see us ending up smaller - with either Kubota's smallest TLB, or maybe even something real comfortable (and expensive!!) like Bobcat's Toolcat. But I think we will also keep a big older tractor around for those times you need a big machine in a hurry.

rScotty

 

[Yander]

When my father-in-law was living he had a hundred horsepower IH 105u.

One of the smaller tractors he had, a utility tractor.

When I was between tractors he would come over and do tractor work for me cuz I live next door. 75% of the time when he brought that big tractor over, something was getting torn up. The yard if nothing else.

He passed away in 2020 and we sold that tractor and bought a 50 horsepower Massey (cab) which is more than big enough for what we need.

Most of the time I don't even use that I use my yanmar.

Right size tractor for the job!

 

[Yander]

Double post

 

[hornett22]

Here's something to think about also. I've been following all these tractor forums for many, many years. Remember way back when the John Deere threads were the only ones absolutely booming? And there were many members buying multiple tractors, and bigger tractors. And now a LOT of them just disappeared. I knew many of them. Know why they disappeared? Because they lost their tractors because they couldn't afford them.

Notice now......John Deere is the most expensive tractor and all the Deere forums have almost no activity on them any more. LOL

I honestly don't know how JD sells anything. Their 1025r is more $ than my Mahindra 1626. They're both made in Japan. I've used both. There's no way I'd buy a 1025. The 3025 is substantially more than the 1626, I've used one of those too. It's a joke compared to the 1626. You can't even remove the front end loader and these rear end housing is aluminum.

Their gator prices are just as obnoxious.

 

[Paystar]

I honestly don't know how JD sells anything. Their 1025r is more $ than my Mahindra 1626. They're both made in Japan. I've used both. There's no way I'd buy a 1025. The 3025 is substantially more than the 1626, I've used one of those too. It's a joke compared to the 1626. You can't even remove the front end loader and these rear end housing is aluminum.

Their gator prices are just as obnoxious.

That new Gator Signature Edition is $50,000 Canadian here before our 13% tax! LOL

I only paid that for my F150 when I bought it new in Sept 2020, LOL

 

[crashz]

Good post OP!

I'd just like to add that needs, wants and capabilities can change so its just fine if the tractor in the barn changes too. I'm very happy with my tractor, but a cabbed rig is calling my name. I need to clear out some projects before I make another move, but in 5 years I can see one in the yard.

Its funny - I began writing a response to Cathy about being budget minded, but I definitely had the "budget blinders" on when I refused to add the accessories that I ultimately wanted later. I missed out on adding rear remotes, the backhoe subframe and third function that would have been MUCH cheaper if added when I ordered the machine. Whats the old saying: The cheap man pays the most?

 

[DaBear3428]

The only thing i can think is when you should go slightly bigger than you think. Is when you build a pole barn. But I agree with you. When I newbie asks about size of tractor for his hobby farm or his 6 acres. Guys are ready to spend your money on what i think is to big of a tractor. Ive always shrugged it off as most people didnt grow up on a farm and haven't been around equipment all there lives. There is only a handful of us out there and thats it.

I grew up on the back of fords and jd but let me put it another way "don't let cost drive you to buy less tractor than you really need", everyone has the tendency to try to spend less and letting that force you into a tractor that is too small leads to a lot of regret, if the tractor is "slightly" too large you won't even notice it after a wile and the cost delta will be mostly insignificant IMO.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I bought more tractor than I needed today, because I may have it 10 years. I added the options I may need, because, I will find more uses for it. I did so in a measured way. Next year the same unit will cost 10% more. It cost me about $3-$4k more to do so… but in a year the tractor will cost that much more on its own.

 

[Beeenvenue]

I DID purchase features I thought would be important/useful and would cost much more later. My SE has 2 rear remotes, plus hydrostat. I’m not saying cheap out; just realize everything you add- well, adds $.

It’s like buying a truck. If you need an f150 and let everyone one on tbn chime in, you’ll end up with a king ranch f350 dually with 5th wheel capability when maybe you should have just stuck with a base model f150 and added those heated seats and a receiver hitch as factory options.

 

[Hay Dude]

I honestly don't know how JD sells anything. Their 1025r is more $ than my Mahindra 1626. They're both made in Japan. I've used both. There's no way I'd buy a 1025. The 3025 is substantially more than the 1626, I've used one of those too. It's a joke compared to the 1626. You can't even remove the front end loader and these rear end housing is aluminum.

Their gator prices are just as obnoxious.

Its the dealership network, parts availability and overall quality aspect. They can’t beat every other brand at everything, and they are more expensive, but they do have incredible parts and service networks.
From a farmers perspective, that sells very well.
I only have 2 John Deere pieces of equipment, but they work very well and were built to last.

I get the attraction to machines with higher horsepower or other better specs, but most Deere stuff was built to last a long time and bring excellent resale.

And like I said, I don’t even own a Deere tractor (yet)!

 

[hornett22]

Its the dealership network, parts availability and overall quality aspect. They can’t beat every other brand at everything, and they are more expensive, but they do have incredible parts and service networks.
From a farmers perspective, that sells very well.
I only have 2 John Deere pieces of equipment, but they work very well and were built to last.

I get the attraction to machines with higher horsepower or other better specs, but most Deere stuff was built to last a long time and bring excellent resale.

And like I said, I don’t even own a Deere tractor (yet)!

Well around here, their dealers have all been bought up by a regional conglomerate. I'm not impressed. They seem to have trouble getting simple parts. Last tractor I worked on they didn't even know of all the filters on the machine. They acted like they didn't remember building the model I was working on. Seems like they're picking up several other brands of zero turn mowers so they have something to sell at reasonable prices.

The big farm stuff may be built to last but the smaller stuff doesn't seem that great. Seems more difficult to to work on than necessary as well. Lots of plastic.

 

[tacticalturnip]

I honestly don't know how JD sells anything. Their 1025r is more $ than my Mahindra 1626. They're both made in Japan. I've used both. There's no way I'd buy a 1025. The 3025 is substantially more than the 1626, I've used one of those too. It's a joke compared to the 1626. You can't even remove the front end loader and these rear end housing is aluminum.

Their gator prices are just as obnoxious.

I can't fault the 1025R; it was my first 'real' tractor, and they're well built and very comfortable to use. Now, I purchased mine used and later sold it for more than I paid, so I never was near the current MSRP. It's a really well built subcompact that is easy to use, and has great ergonomics; it's idiot friendly for sure.

Now, there is a reason I didn't replace my Deere with another Deere, and wallet aside it came down to their corporate policies, and dealer consolidation. Now it was admittedly made a little easier because the 3025E is terrible. The one machine Deere had in the category I want lacks so much, and doesn't even come close to the ergonomics of the R models; no suspension seat, impeded leg room, and a loader that can't be dropped. The machine exists to cater to those who won't buy another color, but can't be upsold to an R model. That doesn't make it good, it makes it the bare minimum.

If they built a 3025R maybe I'd have something more positive to say, but they don't. If I want a 3R I also need to carry the EPA in my pocket; no thank you.

 

[hornett22]

I can't fault the 1025R; it was my first 'real' tractor, and they're well built and very comfortable to use. Now, I purchased mine used and later sold it for more than I paid, so I never was near the current MSRP. It's a really well built subcompact that is easy to use, and has great ergonomics; it's idiot friendly for sure.

Now, there is a reason I didn't replace my Deere with another Deere, and wallet aside it came down to their corporate policies, and dealer consolidation. Now it was admittedly made a little easier because the 3025E is terrible. The one machine Deere had in the category I want lacks so much, and doesn't even come close to the ergonomics of the R models; no suspension seat, impeded leg room, and a loader that can't be dropped. The machine exists to cater to those who won't buy another color, but can't be upsold to an R model. That doesn't make it good, it makes it the bare minimum.

If they built a 3025R maybe I'd have something more positive to say, but they don't. If I want a 3R I also need to carry the EPA in my pocket; no thank you.

How much would a 3025R cost though. They want almost$40k for a 3025e with a backhoe.