Minnesota to try and ban gas powered equipment

[gstrom99]

Now it's all CAFO. (confined animal feeding operations).

Long gone are the small producers. That's pretty much how every technology goes. The economics of scale always win.

They're all over, around here. Only stink if you're downwind, of the operation or the manure injection(s) done in the fields.

 

[Hay Dude]

Cattle is big here, and most of the state produces range beef cattle. But the entire Pecos river valley is planted in alfalfa hay to support the dairy industry and the bulk of the dairies are in those areas also.

I hope it suits your amazing state for the time being, because from what I am reading the next agenda is pushing the end of cows for milk & beef.

 

[turbo36]

MMMMmmmmmm love me that mass produced watered down corporation milk. Expeshully the walmart stuff.
So wholesome.

I grew up drinking the milk straight out of the cans after we got done milking, course we had strain the flies out of it first! I much prefer the store-bought milk now.

 

[turbo36]

I've become friends with a guy whose family farms around 10,000 acres, and finishes around 6000 hogs at a time, 3 times a year. He has friends that do chickens, beef, dairy, etc. It's HUGE business.

We were talking a couple weeks ago about hog farming, and recalling that around here, and especially in southern Michigan, it was common to see field after field of the little corrugated hog huts in rural areas. Now it's all CAFO. (confined animal feeding operations).

Long gone are the small producers. That's pretty much how every technology goes. The economics of scale always win.

So the discussion I had with one of my farm buddies was about the importance of food because you can't import all of it he said. I said to him well, we have thought for years that we can import anything manufactured around the world, why is food different? There's always a country somewhere that is willing to grow and sell us food. The true capitalist doesn't care where it comes from. They only care if they can make a profit on it.

 

[Hay Dude]

I grew up drinking the milk straight out of the cans after we got done milking, course we had strain the flies out of it first! I much prefer the store-bought milk now.

Its always the extremes with you guys, isn’t it?
I’m not pushing people to have to drive to a farm to buy milk. Store bought is fine. Would be nice to see the local dairies hold up so we have some for the little guy, too right?

 

[MossRoad]

There's a HUGE dairy in Northwest Indiana called Fair Oaks Farms. It's privately owned by several families. The scale is almost incomprehensible. They give tours. I was on a tour and there happened to be a couple dozen retired Wisconsin dairy farmers and their spouses on that tour. They said this is the way to do it if you want to survive.

Here's a link to a video by two of the owners. It shows a lot of kids playing at the activity center, but listen to the words. Listen to what they say about not using diesel and using cow poop instead to power their truck, equipment, and everything electric on the place.

If anyone ever gets a chance to visit that place, it's worth the trip.

 

[MossRoad]

Its always the extremes with you guys, isn’t it?
I’m not pushing people to have to drive to a farm to buy milk. Store bought is fine. Would be nice to see the local dairies hold up so we have some for the little guy, too right?

Yes, it would be nice. But that's not the reality of the present.

There are a few niche dairies around here that sell artisan cheeses, organic milks, etc., so they're trying to carve a niche for themselves.

Like this one. They seem to be doing well. Product all over the place. But then, they are not getting smaller, they are getting larger.

Crystal Springs Creamery | Osceola, IN

Home to naturally sourced products, Crystal Springs Creamery is based in Osceola, Indiana. In the heart of the country, we make dairy products from farm-fresh, delectable ingredients.

crystalspringscreamery.com

 

[turbo36]

Its always the extremes with you guys, isn’t it?
I’m not pushing people to have to drive to a farm to buy milk. Store bought is fine. Would be nice to see the local dairies hold up so we have some for the little guy, too right?

Who is "you guys"? You made a remark about how yummy store-bought milk is in your cutesy folksy speak in attempt to belittle someone. I understand what you are trying to do, you put a label on someone and then somehow they become less than human and that allows you to divide them from the center.


You seem to have a real problem when someone that may have grown up in similar situations to you doesn't think like you.

 

[Hay Dude]

Weren’t the Environmentalist people the ones screaming at large ranchers and dairies for polluting and abusing animals?

 

[Hay Dude]

Who is "you guys"? You made a remark about how yummy store-bought milk is in your cutesy folksy speak in attempt to belittle someone. I understand what you are trying to do, you put a label on someone and then somehow they become less than human and that allows you to divide them from the center.


You seem to have a real problem when someone that may have grown up in similar situations to you doesn't think like you.

You and a bunch of people talking about eliminating fossil rules, industry and agriculture in the name of “saving the planet”
Thats who

I ain’t dividing nothing except the division of my household income it now takes to keep the lights and heat on with these crippling new energy prices.

 

[cqaigy2]

Well, to be honest if you are running something that's under 25H.P. it probably should be battery anyway. Those smaller motors suck and burn too much gas and two strokes want to have mix gas etc. Speaking of dairies, back in the 90s i was doing some business with a dairy that made their own electric power from methane they made from cow manure. It gave them an edge over other dairies in the area. Even though electric power is cheap here, they saved money and used the products from the methane digester for other purposes, i don't recall what it was now though. Not a farmer or dairy rancher.

 

[turbo36]

I'm only talking about eliminating fossil fuels where it makes sense. I'm not a big fan of electric cars, all things considered. If you consider the total pollution generated in their production I don't see them as a real improvement on a modern low emission vehicle. Besides I like hearing the sound of my gas powered Porsche when I go down the road much better than the electric one I drove.

It appears that the increase in energy cost is now greater for fossil fuels than renewables. Honestly, if we can figure out an economical storage solution, most of the fossil fuel electric generation will go the way of the dinosaur.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[MossRoad]

Well, to be honest if you are running something that's under 25H.P. it probably should be battery anyway. Those smaller motors suck and burn too much gas and two strokes want to have mix gas etc. Speaking of dairies, back in the 90s i was doing some business with a dairy that made their own electric power from methane they made from cow manure. It gave them an edge over other dairies in the area. Even though electric power is cheap here, they saved money and used the products from the methane digester for other purposes, i don't recall what it was now though. Not a farmer or dairy rancher.

From here:

https://engineering.purdue.edu/adt/pub/ABE157W_FairOaks.pdf

 

[Eagle1]

Well, to be honest if you are running something that's under 25H.P. it probably should be battery anyway. Those smaller motors suck and burn too much gas and two strokes want to have mix gas etc. Speaking of dairies, back in the 90s i was doing some business with a dairy that made their own electric power from methane they made from cow manure. It gave them an edge over other dairies in the area. Even though electric power is cheap here, they saved money and used the products from the methane digester for other purposes, i don't recall what it was now though. Not a farmer or dairy rancher.

FInd me a battery replacement for 25+ ton splitter with a 10hp gas motor...... or 4" trash or water pump.
Or a decent generator I can use for weeks after a storm.

 

[jyoutz]

I hope it suits your amazing state for the time being, because from what I am reading the next agenda is pushing the end of cows for milk & beef.

I won’t be losing sleep over a supposed half baked agenda. I’m sure that dairies will be around for many decades (centuries). But what is happening with agriculture nationwide (like other industries) is economies of scale. Small acreage and animal farms are having a difficult time with viability, except where they have developed a niche market.

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm only talking about eliminating fossil fuels where it makes sense. I'm not a big fan of electric cars, all things considered. If you consider the total pollution generated in their production I don't see them as a real improvement on a modern low emission vehicle. Besides I like hearing the sound of my gas powered Porsche when I go down the road much better than the electric one I drove.

It appears that the increase in energy cost is now greater for fossil fuels than renewables. Honestly, if we can figure out an economical storage solution, most of the fossil fuel electric generation will go the way of the dinosaur.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

That’s fine with me. I have said for years I am an excellent candidate for an electric truck. I haul short distan es and need a lot of torque. Perfect for me.

Just don’t force it on me through screaming, emotional congresswomen who don’t know crap from a hole in the ground.

Let the market figure it out, and don’t go making emmissions standards impossible to achieve, either.

 

[jyoutz]

Weren’t the Environmentalist people the ones screaming at large ranchers and dairies for polluting and abusing animals?

Yeah, lots of people make noise about their agendas. The majority rolls their eyes and says “so what.”

 

[turbo36]

That’s fine with me. I have said for years I am an excellent candidate for an electric truck. I haul short distan es and need a lot of torque. Perfect for me.

Just don’t force it on me through screaming, emotional congresswomen who don’t know crap from a hole in the ground.

Let the market figure it out, and don’t go making emmissions standards impossible to achieve, either.

We agree!!!!

 

[Hay Dude]

Well, to be honest if you are running something that's under 25H.P. it probably should be battery anyway. Those smaller motors suck and burn too much gas and two strokes want to have mix gas etc. Speaking of dairies, back in the 90s i was doing some business with a dairy that made their own electric power from methane they made from cow manure. It gave them an edge over other dairies in the area. Even though electric power is cheap here, they saved money and used the products from the methane digester for other purposes, i don't recall what it was now though. Not a farmer or dairy rancher.

You’ve obviously never cleared fence lines or cut trees for a living/commercially.
I do, and no battery tool is even close to that yet.
For occasional homeowner use, its just fine.
Maybe there will be in future, but please don’t force me into batteries when they can’t do what ICE can do.

 

[Hay Dude]

Yeah, lots of people make noise about their agendas. Then majority tools their eyes and says “so what.”

Far as I can see, the agendas are becoming laws.
CA no ICE cars by ‘35?
MN proposing legislation on banning small engines?
Gas blowers banned in some areas?

Sounds like more than agenda to me, or haven't you noticed?