Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[turbo36]

Yeah, my design started out that way but I moved them in to reduce the square footage. Taxe$$$$...

Curious, what is your tax rate down there?

 

[ETD66SS]

Curious, what is your tax rate down there?

From memory of the last time I researched it. My school tax is around $26 per $1000 of assessed/market value. The county taxes I'm not really sure.

But for my stick frame design if I were to build that (1200sq-ft) I would expect $12,000-$13,000 per year in property taxes. (school + county). I would hope the barndominium would be assesd for about $100k lower, so maybe $9000 in taxes per year for that.

Over 70% of the county property taxes in NY goes towards "poor" people in the county on Medicaid. In my county I have the cities of Niagara Falls and Lockport. Both cities filled with low income households. If I would have bought land one county to the east of my property taxes would be about half.

 

[MossRoad]

Ouch!

 

[ETD66SS]

Ouch!

Yep. I was 29 years old when I bought this property. Wasn't a homeowner at the time and didn't put enough thought into the tax situation. Now the land is very developed and ready for building, I don't think I want to start all over again somewhere else.

 

[MossRoad]

Yep. I was 29 years old when I bought this property. Wasn't a homeowner at the time and didn't put enough thought into the tax situation. Now the land is very developed and ready for building, I don't think I want to start all over again somewhere else.

If you like the area, can get what you want where you are, and can finance the future, go for it. The one thing I've learned is the older I get, the better I was. I'm 62, and time is really flying now.

 

[JasperFrank]

I believe there was a question as first stated by the OP.

My answer is "Real House. " Separated garage.

 

[turbo36]

From memory of the last time I researched it. My school tax is around $26 per $1000 of assessed/market value. The county taxes I'm not really sure.

But for my stick frame design if I were to build that (1200sq-ft) I would expect $12,000-$13,000 per year in property taxes. (school + county). I would hope the barndominium would be assesd for about $100k lower, so maybe $9000 in taxes per year for that.

Over 70% of the county property taxes in NY goes towards "poor" people in the county on Medicaid. In my county I have the cities of Niagara Falls and Lockport. Both cities filled with low income households. If I would have bought land one county to the east of my property taxes would be about half.

I can see why taxes make such a difference. Here in Michigan you are taxed at 50% of market value if it is your primary residence you get a break of 18 mills. My non-homestead property is taxed around 52 mills so pretty close to what you are paying.

Also, I should have said "over there" instead of "down there".

 

[ETD66SS]

I can see why taxes make such a difference. Here in Michigan you are taxed at 50% of market value if it is your primary residence you get a break of 18 mills. My non-homestead property is taxed around 52 mills so pretty close to what you are paying.

Also, I should have said "over there" instead of "down there".

Here in NYS they have the STAR program. Older homes get a tax break, but not homes built after the law was put in the books. The house I just sold was 864 sq-ft built in 1954. I paid about $3300/year for taxes on that home, and would get a check for about $700 per year for property tax relief. When you build a new home, not only do you pay more taxes than older homes due to assessed value, you also do not receive any of the STAR tax relief money. So basically when you build a new home you screw yourself in terms of taxes for the duration you own that home. It's better to buy an old house and fix it up. I'm not interested in any of the old farm houses with crappy basements however.

 

[garc]

Yeah, my design started out that way but I moved them in to reduce the square footage. Taxe$$$$...

Just throwin' stuff at the wall

 

[ETD66SS]

Just throwin' stuff at the wall

I did think about the covered porch over top of one of the garage bays, but wondering how you deal with water that gets blown in on the deck area, don't want it finding its way into the garage below, and kind of wanted that deck open to the weather, not closed in.

I like that it's 900 sq-ft and not 1300 however.

 

[Carl_NH]

I like the layout garc did of the entry from the deck with the open counter area and closets then the Bath too is better.

You could do a screen porch on half and a rubber/epdm roof under the deck to eliminate any water from the garage below.

 

[ETD66SS]

I like the layout garc did of the entry from the deck with the open counter area and closets then the Bath too is better.

You could do a screen porch on half and a rubber/epdm roof under the deck to eliminate any water from the garage below.

I want the bathroom and laundry room separate. Because the hot water heater and whatever I need for radiant heat will go in that room as well (also attic access). I also do not like the stackable washer/dryer. The open counter is nice, but that means less kitchen cabinets.

Also, in my state anyways, the stairwell counts as taxable living space.

 

[garc]

I want the bathroom and laundry room separate. Because the hot water heater and whatever I need for radiant heat will go in that room as well (also attic access). I also do not like the stackable washer/dryer. The open counter is nice, but that means less kitchen cabinets.

A few thoughts from my imagination and/or my own experience ...
Going small means compromise. I've had both both stackable and side by each full size washer dryers combos with no concerns on my part. Some can be installed either way to suit space limitations.
Attic access might be more 'accessible' from the shop side of the 'dominium' wall above and to the right of the relocated staircase upper landing. I imagine you could continue the stairs upwards beyond the landing.
Hydronic heating requires a bit of plumbing for the loop manifolds, pumps etc. I would be inclined to have three water heaters, domestic (140°F), living area and shop (max 110°F). Also I expect you'll want the shop 10°F cooler than the living area with a separate thermostat. None of this equipment requires the sacrifice of premium living space since it is basically set it and forget it.
You have an unusually large pantry so five feet of over counter cabinets to the right of the deck window should be good for one person's daily food prep with extras in the pantry. My thoughts not withstanding I tried to leave the kitchen layout as you had it thinking you could adjust as needed since there is clearly a lot of personal preference in your design.

The key to the layout I submitted is working within the confines of 36 feet x 25 feet in order to keep the tax man at bay, something you have mentioned once or twice or .

 

[ovrszd]

I'd try to put the hydronic floor heat setup in the shop bathroom. It'll easily fit on 5ft of wall space. Could be compressed onto 4ft.

You'll only need two water heaters. Domestic and floor heat system are completely separate.

 

[ETD66SS]

OK, my latest redesign. Got rid of the awkward pantry. Now I actually have some upper kitchen cabinets. One of the windows is no longer centered over the garage door so that is eating at my OCD. I tried a 900 sq-ft plan but it just wasn't working. Oddly this works out to 1234 sq-ft, EXACT same as my stick frame house design... I'm hoping because its a barn, a woman will be assessing it and she hates it and gives it a low value.

Tha bathroom and laundry room would not be vaulted, I'd frame in a flat 9ft ceiling, same with the stairwell landing. I'd have attic access in both the shop and in the living space.

 

[garc]

I have a gas boiler that designed to heat all three; domestic tap water 'on demand', house floor and shop floor. My garage is also on the network but I haven't used it in it's 20 years. It's just for future proofing incase there would ever be a need to make it a habitable space. Shop and two car garage are three separate zones. I even have a zone for an actual heated slab under an imaginary outside dog house that I've never got around to finishing
Anyway, on demand water heating doesn't work comfortably with a well and bladder pressure tank because the pressure range alters the exposure to the heat exchanger varying water temperature in the shower. Also, the boiler has to ramp up 30⁰F creating a delay in water temperature after the demand.
So, I bypassed the boiler and installed a conventional electric 40 gal DHW heater
The reason for two hydronic water heaters is because the shop and living quarters couldn't be more different in their heating requirements.

 

[ETD66SS]

The reason for two hydronic water heaters is because the shop and living quarters couldn't be more different in their heating requirements.

I was assuming I'd have separate heaters. But I have not researched that part yet. All I know is I really want radiant heat. I'm sick and tired of forced hot air with my allergies & asthma.

 

[JasperFrank]

"$12,000-$13,000 per year in property taxes." We don't even have a sales tax and prop taxes are no where near that.

 

[ETD66SS]

"$12,000-$13,000 per year in property taxes." We don't even have a sales tax and prop taxes are no where near that.

I've spent the last ~10 years looking at properties and houses for sale in WNY. I found a few properties that I might have been interested in down near the PA line, taxes would be much cheaper. It's only now that I started looking at states other than NY.

I'd want 60-100 acres, and basically a thick forest. Looking on Google Earth and Zillow, I kind of have to stay near the east coast to find what I want. Montana & Wyoming sound romantic but the landscape is not what I'm attracted to, I need lots of trees. I would love Arizona for the weather, but it's ugly out there in terms of trees etc. I find that I tend to like the properties in NY, PA, VA, WV, MI etc...

Having said all that I've got 26 years in at my company, a job I like and I get paid well. I would not look forward to getting a new job.

 

[JasperFrank]

You are looking at Maine. Yet I don't understand Maine, in that, I see no opportunity for small private ownership.. 90% of that state is already owned by huge land holding companies or Indigenous peoples. Everything NW of 95 is what? It certainly isn't for sale.