another hiccup to going solar?

[Dftodd]

I don't think I'll ever experience the ups/downs of solar. It has been determined that there is insufficient sunlight here to justify solar. This could change as solar becomes more efficient. The current systems are simply too expensive and would be needing replacement long before any benefits would be realized.

I'm waiting for them to perfect solar shingles

 

[hube2]

The way it's always been here. I get wholesale rates for power I create over what I use and that only happens once a year. This is why it's better to not produce more than you use each year.

 

[bnold]

The way it's always been here. I get wholesale rates for power I create over what I use and that only happens once a year. This is why it's better to not produce more than you use each year.

I wish our delta was calculated yearly instead of monthly.

I’d double my system and generate massive power during the summer months. Help out the winter month shortfalls.

They way it is now, basically size the system to not exceed total usage in July/August months as to not give the power company free energy.

 

[LD1]

I wish our delta was calculated yearly instead of monthly.

I’d double my system and generate massive power during the summer months. Help out the winter month shortfalls.

They way it is now, basically size the system to not exceed total usage in July/August months as to not give the power company free energy.

So instead of making more than you use during the day.....and using more than you make during the night where it stays pretty balanced....You'd rather have the power company "store" your summer energy as credit for half a year till you need it more in the winter at no additional charge to you?

 

[Mtsoxfan]

No one is asking you to have sympathy for the power company.

"Profit" has seem to become such a bad word in the eyes of so many people anymore. Synonymous with "greed".

Isnt that the goal of business......to make a profit? Why are they any different? They have shareholders that want to make a return, employees that want benefits and pay raises, etc.

I have electric bills from TWO providers out of the THREE in my area. There is no "laundry" list of other charges like you see with cell phones or cable TV. My bill has FOUR charges. Generation/transmission, distribution, meter charge, and tax. Thats it. Its actually one of the simplest bills I get.

And most people pay MORE for Internet/TV and Cell phones per month than we do for electric.

IT simply doesnt make sense to FORCE a power company to pay MORE for raw power just because it comes from a residential solar customer. But you are right, the power companies arent suffering at all. The increase cost of having to cater to the 5% with solar is distributed out to the remaining 95%.

I'm not sure the exact amount, but in VT, we have to pay a fee that goes to Efficiency VT, which in turn, gives it out as rebates etc. for people "greening" up their purchaces of electricity consuming appliances. They want us to use heat pumps, which we do, (and love them) but they get expensive in winters deep freeze temps. And we are penalized (fee paying) for using what they are pushing...

Why should I subsidize others?

 

[Mtsoxfan]

The system needs a reset.

We have large hydro facilities nearby. Our co-op providing power to my house does not use the power generated 20 miles away. They use power generated 100 miles away. The power generated 20 miles away is used 500 miles away.


When a very large industrial user went out of business and shut down, all residential user small business users saw a rate increase. Larger companies did not.

We (as most users do) have two main components on our statements. Usage in KwHrs and Facilities (lines, poles, substations, tree trimming,etc.) As long as we are connected, we pay the facilities charges, whether we use s single watt of power or not. I can understand that.

Users that go solar or wind SHOULD be able to get full credit for KwHrs generated and sold back to the grid, or at least the wholesale price the utilities pay other providers. They should not have to pay for not using power, or get paid less for generating it.

Now, the really bad part is that in some places, all addresses are required to pay the facilities charge even if they are not connected to the grid at all. Don't ask me for specific examples because I can't quote them right now. But I have read more than a few articles on it.

As a former solar houshold (10+ years) in CT, we were paid a much lower amount at the end of our "year" for unused power it was maybe 1/4 of full price. I agree with that. Why should I profit like the power company, forcing other users to subsidize my system? Going rate is fair in my opinion.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

There is never any savings in electricity cost if you are using Solar or Wind. Both are not cost effective, that's why there are tax break incentives (subsidies) with both.

I'm off grid solar and it is not the cheapest way to get power. But it is less expensive than running a diesel generator.
Batteries are the most expensive part of an off grid solar electric system. Which is the biggest reason people want to have grid-tied systems. Making the utility be thier battery.

After subsities of about 30% or so, payoff for system that provided 100% of our needs, was 9 years. Figure another 3 or 4 if no subsity. When we sold our home, solar provided an increase in sales price more than enough to cover initial outlay. Yes, making the utility our battery was key...

 

[hube2]

I wish our delta was calculated yearly instead of monthly.

I’d double my system and generate massive power during the summer months. Help out the winter month shortfalls.

They way it is now, basically size the system to not exceed total usage in July/August months as to not give the power company free energy.

I have a 9.8KW array. It products 98% of what I use during the year. The credit I create usually last until some time in January or February. My payout date is early march. I guess it depends on the state you are in, but I agree, a monthly payout would just suck and I think the power company is just ripping you off.

 

[hube2]

So instead of making more than you use during the day.....and using more than you make during the night where it stays pretty balanced....You'd rather have the power company "store" your summer energy as credit for half a year till you need it more in the winter at no additional charge to you?

That is the way it works in NY. You get a credit on your bill and they take from that credit. Once a year, on a date that you can set, the power company gives you $ credited to your bill at the current wholesale rate for any KW credits you have remaining. For me that is usually nothing.

 

[oosik]

The best and least complicated way for solar here - go out on my porch and enjoy the sunshine.

 

[orezok]

I'm not sure the exact amount, but in VT, we have to pay a fee that goes to Efficiency VT, which in turn, gives it out as rebates etc. for people "greening" up their purchaces of electricity consuming appliances. They want us to use heat pumps, which we do, (and love them) but they get expensive in winters deep freeze temps. And we are penalized (fee paying) for using what they are pushing...

Why should I subsidize others?

If you drive on a highway, others are subsidizing you. You don’t get to cherry pick.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

taxes pay for roads, i pay taxes, so....
My point is, only the family that gets subsity for solar benefit, not all people.

I don't see how I'm cherry picking.

 

[orezok]

taxes pay for roads, i pay taxes, so....
My point is, only the family that gets subsity for solar benefit, not all people.

I don't see how I'm cherry picking.

If you are a farmer you get subsidies, if you own stock in petrochemical or pharmaceutical you get subsidies. Pick any of another thousand things and you get subsidies. I don’t have either so only those who do get subsidies. Not cherry picking of course.

 

[etpm]

taxes pay for roads, i pay taxes, so....
My point is, only the family that gets subsity for solar benefit, not all people.

I don't see how I'm cherry picking.

If you drive on public roads and use a vehicle that gets better mileage than other vehicles then you are getting subsidized by the vehicles that get worse mileage because of the road taxes included at the pump. We all pay taxes. And we all pay taxes for services that we don't use. Roads we don't drive on. Schools that our children don't attend. And so on. And you can also get a subsidy for solar, all you need to do is spend the money to buy the panels and get the tax break. Oil companies get HUGE subsidies. We pay for that. You pay way more in taxes to subsidize oil companies than you do for folks who install solar panels. Did you think of mentioning oil company subsidies?
Eric

 

[beowulf]

Power companies are just tired of being forced to pay residential customers 4x or 5x what they can buy the SAME power from their suppliers at wholesale for. Which only drives up the cost for everyone else, because you know damn good and well the power companies are just passing along that cost.

This is just the difference between wholesale and retail. No different than any other market.

This is exactly what I was told when we were negotiating for solar in 2018. I called the power company to ask why there was such a difference in what they charged us and what they would pay us for any excess production. They said they pay the solar customer at the same rate they can buy power from other power sources. It made perfect sense to me. It was not an important factor for us anyway as we did not anticipate having a great amount of excess to sell, and later, another regulation - having two meters - meant they would not buy any excess anyway.

 

[TN8Man]

Here in Tennessee we do not have net metering but even if we did I would not participate because these net metering systems are not permanent and subject to change at any time. I looked seriously at solar as a back-up system a few times over the years but the cost-benefit analysis never worked out even after lithium batteries suddenly got much cheaper. It never made sense to have solar panels without a large battery storage system and it's the large battery storage system cost and performance that was the biggest hurtle. If the grid goes down I want my solar system to provide me what I paid for. So I bought a EU7000i Honda geny and wired in a transfer switch that works great!

 

[Torvy]

If you drive on public roads and use a vehicle that gets better mileage than other vehicles then you are getting subsidized by the vehicles that get worse mileage because of the road taxes included at the pump. We all pay taxes. And we all pay taxes for services that we don't use. Roads we don't drive on. Schools that our children don't attend. And so on. And you can also get a subsidy for solar, all you need to do is spend the money to buy the panels and get the tax break. Oil companies get HUGE subsidies. We pay for that. You pay way more in taxes to subsidize oil companies than you do for folks who install solar panels. Did you think of mentioning oil company subsidies?
Eric

That is why many people want to limit spending by those who spend other people's money to things that are truly used by everyone. Even people who do not drive use public roads.

I'll be more open to further environmental requirements when 100% of other countries catch up to where we are in those terms. Not that we are furthest along, but we are well beyond some major polluters.

 

[TN8Man]

I'm not sure the exact amount, but in VT, we have to pay a fee that goes to Efficiency VT, which in turn, gives it out as rebates etc. for people "greening" up their purchaces of electricity consuming appliances. They want us to use heat pumps, which we do, (and love them) but they get expensive in winters deep freeze temps. And we are penalized (fee paying) for using what they are pushing...

Why should I subsidize others?

This is why I purchased a wood burning stove. It works great and I have plenty of free wood on my properties. I turn the heat pump off when it gets below freezing.

 

[Hay Dude]

That is why many people want to limit spending by those who spend other people's money to things that are truly used by everyone. Even people who do not drive use public roads.

I'll be more open to further environmental requirements when 100% of other countries catch up to where we are in those terms. Not that we are furthest along, but we are well beyond some major polluters.

And then we sell coal to Chia, one of the world’s worst polluters and still a “developing nation” status?

That’s like a drug pusher selling drugs to a heavy user.

This country’s “leadership” is so hypocritical.

But yeah, I know…..China’s air pollution stays within their borders.

 

[bnold]

So instead of making more than you use during the day.....and using more than you make during the night where it stays pretty balanced....You'd rather have the power company "store" your summer energy as credit for half a year till you need it more in the winter at no additional charge to you?

My coop’s net metering is decent, really not complaining, my situation works, it could be better. Wholesale power in and out at the same rate, but it won’t go below zero on a bill, if I over produce, the coop gets to enjoy that energy for free. IE not paying for the service I provide.

No energy is ‘stored’

Would I like yearly net metering instead of monthly, sure thing. Or a negative monthly when I over produce, sure thing.

Some companies have exactly that situation.

Still sitting at a 6-7 year payback (down from originally installed, due to increased tax credit and increased energy cost)