Independent PTO problem, JD 2240, 1978

Eutychus2 · May 14, 2023

I was mowing and the PTO quit working. The following symptoms are with the tractor idling.

1. With manual lever disengaged and hydraulic value off, PTO shaft can be spun by hand fairly easily. (as has always been the situation)

2. With manual lever engaged and hydraulic value off, PTO shaft can be spun by hand but with some resistance and/or sometimes it spins without help and can be stopped by hand. (it is supposed to be stopped by the internal brake band)

3. With manual lever engaged and hydraulic value on, PTO shaft CANNOT be turned by hand or moved. Tractor goes under a slight load when value is engaged, i. e. pulled up to "on" position.

TractorTech · May 14, 2023

Welcome to TBN. Question on #3 ”Tractor goes under a slight load when valve is engaged”. Do you mean the engine loads slightly?
Also, the PTO doesn’t spin?

Eutychus2 · May 14, 2023

Tx Jim · May 15, 2023

Sounds as if pto clutch has failed or has a hyd leak. I suggest to check pto clutch pressure on trans shift cover.

TractorTech · May 15, 2023

I tend to think that there is a leak in the PTO valve that is applying the brake and the clutch with little pressure to each, but not enough to spin the PTO.

Eutychus2 · May 25, 2023

Thanks for the ideas. Could the clutch failing cause the PTO to "lock up" upon sending hydraulic fluid to it? Or, if it is the valve itself at fault, the valve only will be need to be repaired/rebuilt? Thanks, again for y'all's input.

TractorTech · May 26, 2023

What I am thinking is that the valve is leaking pressurized oil to both the brake and clutch when both the lever and valve are actuated. When the valve is off, there is a leak at the valve or brake that is losing pressure due to a leak on either. The pressure isn't high enough to engage the brake when off or to engage the clutch. Not sure exactly, I am thinking that the valve is the place to start.

Eutychus2 · May 29, 2023

My pressure gauge does not adapt down to the test port size and local hydraulic suppliers do not have an adapter. However, the port for testing pressure to clutch does have some oil pressure at idle, but it has oil when it is suppose to be off, too. What would you inspect for a failure in the diagram?

TractorTech · May 29, 2023

I suspect one of the gaskets as you say it quit working all of a sudden.

I attached pages from the 50 series PTO which is pretty much the same

Eutychus2 · May 31, 2023

TractorTech said:
\I suspect one of the gaskets as you say it quit working all of a sudden.

I attached pages from the 50 series PTO which is pretty much the same

I really appreciate your assistance and trouble. I have a 2240 Technical Manual and it shows a similar spool diagram. In other action, I managed to borrow a gauge that I was able to connect to the clutch and brake testing ports at the gear shift levers. However, the brake testing port has need of a special 90 degree fitting to test it in the pressure (on) position because of the actuator arm in the way. I was able to test in the off position at 2100 rpm after warm-up and the clutch port also in both on and off. The result was that the clutch port test 0 pressure in the off position and in spec (125-135 psi) in the on position. The brake port tested 0 pressure in the off position. I do know that there is pressure but not how much in the brake on position. The manual says to use 2 gauges to test that no pressure bleeds between the two positions when the actuator is moved from active to inactive. But I don't have the ability to test that at this time. So I believe that the transmission pump is okay at least. With this new information are you still leaning toward the valve failure and sending pressure to both?

TractorTech · May 31, 2023

Yes, that is still what I am thinking. Did or can you take the plug off of the test port for the brake circuit and see if any fluid comes out while the PTO is in the On position. You may have to start the tractor in the On position so that high pressure oil doesn’t come out of the port in the Off position. May I suggest trying this with the kill cable pulled out and just turn the engine over.

Eutychus2 · Jun 10, 2023

To close out this query: The symptoms are the result of the PTO clutch in the transmission coming apart. The pressure oil apparently was causing the clutch (while still in the hub) to lock up the PTO shaft.

Thanks again for each input.

Eutychus2 · Jun 10, 2023

TractorTech said:
Yes, that is still what I am thinking. Did or can you take the plug off of the test port for the brake circuit and see if any fluid comes out while the PTO is in the On position. You may have to start the tractor in the On position so that high pressure oil doesn’t come out of the port in the Off position. May I suggest trying this with the kill cable pulled out and just turn the engine over.

I do not understand why I am just now getting your latest reply. It appears that you posted this on the 3rd and it is now the 10th and I have checked here about 2 or 3 times every day. Thanks much for you help.

TractorTech · Jun 10, 2023

Wow! I don't think I've ever heard of that, but makes sense

TractorTech · Jun 10, 2023

Eutychus2 said:
I do not understand why I am just now getting your latest reply. It appears that you posted this on the 3rd and it is now the 10th and I have checked here about 2 or 3 times every day. Thanks much for you help.

Very strange. Flying around in the cloud all this time

Eutychus2 · Jun 10, 2023

TractorTech said:
Very strange. Flying around in the cloud all this time

I don't know; maybe just me. Anyway, how about this?

I got back on it. The clutch drum's lip is destroyed so that the circlip holding in the discs came loose. Do you know where I can get a good used one?

Also, I need to clean out the transmission case. Can I remove the front bearing support without taking off the rocker cover?

I checked my settings. Maybe I have it set right to receive an email when you respond.

TractorTech · Jun 10, 2023

Here is a used clutch:

John Deere PTO Clutch Drum, Used for John Deere 1640,1641,1641F,2040,2040,2040S,2140,2141,2150,2155,2240,2251,2251N,2255,2350,2351,2355,2355N,2440,2541,2550,2555,2640,2651,2750,2755,2855N,2940,2941,2950,2951,2955,3055,3140,3141,3150,3155,3255,3351,36

PTO Clutch Drum, Used 434751 for sale, For John Deere tractor models 1640 (s-n 430000-later), 1641, 1641F, 2040 (s-n 350000-later), 2040 (s-n 430000-later), 2040S (s-n 430000-later), 2140 (s-n 430000-later), 2141, 2150, 2155, 2240 (s-n 350000-later), 2251, 2251N, 2255, 2350, 2351, 2355, 2355N...

www.yesterdaystractors.com

Front bearing support?