Tractor idling

[BruceMyers48]

Hi all,
I was wondering what is the norm for letting my Kioti 3 cylinder diesel idle between using and then doing some hand work, say for 5 to 10 minutes. Would you shut it down or let it idle? Thanks as always for the expert advice!View attachment 807535

I have a Kubota and letting idle is bsd for it. Mine is set up with the tier four system to burn off exhaust, letting it idle will throw it into a combustion mode. I have to run mine at or over 2000 rpms

 

[BrkMstr]

You show a CK25, if that's correct you do not have regen, idle will not affect yours as it would regen units, I only idle to warm it up when needed for a couple of minutes. Outside of that I shut it down, the regen should not be idled, if I do leave it running it's running at minimum of 1800 rpm

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

You can keep it running at not idle

 

[Dunno]

Don’t let it idle for very long. Dodge Ram Cummins diesel owner here. I read a story of a fellow with same truck who used to let it idle for long periods (don’t know exactly how long). Had an issue with truck, brought it to dealership, and they refused to honor the warranty because they saw that the truck idled excessively. Probably loaded up the $2,500 cats beyond repair. Also, idling contributes to greenhouse gases - best for us all to do our part to reduce them if possible.

 

[Roger66]

As I said I don't have a DPF, with my use case I was afraid of it. Just the other day I was splitting wood, BIG rounds I needed to move each with the tractor, then it would take a good 5 minutes to split the big round, then I bring a new piece in, So I "use" the tractor for less than 1 minute and the tractor exerted no effort moving the piece of wood, then it sits for 5 minutes. Say I'm splitting wood for 1 hour, giving no weight to fuel usage, Is it better to leave the tractor running, or start the tractor 10 more times in that hour. If it were a DPF tractor would the answer be the same?

 

[Dunno]

Without DPFs and regen, I think you’re okay with some idling while working the tractor. Would be kind of inefficient to start it up every few minutes. I assume you are not concerned about fuel economy, so C’est la vie.
I do not let my diesel truck idle to warm up in the winter. Someone explained that it does more harm than good, as the low idle doesn’t provide the lubrication needed. I think he’s correct, so nowadays I start it, throw it into drive, and go off at a slow speed for a bit. YMMV. Best regards.

 

[rhuffie]

Normally I would say let it idle but with a regen system you are loading up the muffler with unburnt particles that will need to be burned off sooner or later by a regen cycle. So anymore than 5 min I would turn her off.

Clearly the other posters here are not considering the regen systems now incorporated into many new tractors. If your tractor has one, know that "scootr's" advice is sound and you should disregard the others.
So then that is the question... does your tractor have this kind of emmision contol system or not?

 

[Roger66]

With my use case, I figured I could not have a DPF. 90% of the time my tractor is used for 10 minutes or less. I'd be a good candidate for an electric tractor. I used to have a Clark electric forklift, it made no noise and consummed no energy except for the moments where you lifted something or traversed. It would happily wait for you no idling necessary, but it had no brakes and was pavement only, no driving on the grass with it! I replaced it with the tractor.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

With my use case, I figured I could not have a DPF. 90% of the time my tractor is used for 10 minutes or less. I'd be a good candidate for an electric tractor. I used to have a Clark electric forklift, it made no noise and consummed no energy except for the moments where you lifted something or traversed. It would happily wait for you no idling necessary, but it had no brakes and was pavement only, no driving on the grass with it! I replaced it with the tractor.

My main requirement when buying a diesel is pre emission. I would rather invest in repairs needed in a older diesel, one and done, than deal with on going emissions BS.

 

[rScotty]

With my use case, I figured I could not have a DPF. 90% of the time my tractor is used for 10 minutes or less. I'd be a good candidate for an electric tractor. I used to have a Clark electric forklift, it made no noise and consummed no energy except for the moments where you lifted something or traversed. It would happily wait for you no idling necessary, but it had no brakes and was pavement only, no driving on the grass with it! I replaced it with the tractor.

We use our tractor about the same. It's a 2007 Kubota without DPF. About 1200 hours. Doing some firewood work yesterday we use the backhoe - at idle - to pick up tree trucks and hold them at waist level for cutting into rounds. It idles efficiently without smoke or smell. Pretty much typical of any pre DPF type.

So yesterday's use was half throttle to drive a mile to the wood lot, idle for a few hours continuously while working the backhoe, followed by 10 minutes at half throttle to get back to the woodshed with the bucket full of rounds. Once there, we turned the tractor off to enjoy the silence while stacking wood. Then everyone clambers aboard to ride the mile back home. Nice afternoon.

Sure it does idle a lot, but it is built to do that. Idling doesn't mean it burns fuel any more or less efficiently when idling than at full throttle - it simply uses less fuel and air to idle.
Almost 20 years, 1200 hours, worked hard & idled lots, no problems and little or no obvious wear. My guess is that idling an old style engine is not a problem. I can't see any reason why it would need repairs in the next 20 years. New tires and battery would be my expectations.

rScotty

 

[scootr]

My 2018 MX5200 Regens at the drop of a hat. Seems like every 30 hours or so. Regen 3 times in 100 hours so far. I try to keep the rpms up. 1500 for traveling, 1800-2300 for work. This is often more rpms than needed to accomplish the task. Still it does it again and again...

 

[Rockbadchild]

Clearly the other posters here are not considering the regen systems now incorporated into many new tractors. If your tractor has one, know that "scootr's" advice is sound and you should disregard the others.
So then that is the question... does your tractor have this kind of emmision contol system or not?

he dose not... he mentioned it on post #13

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Every start of a diesel lets off a nice puff of black smoke that the DPF must catch.

Glad my diesels don't do that. But the 6040 does sometimes put out a puff when shifting gears. That does not keep me from shifting it as needed.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Starting any engine accelerates wear (no oil pressure for a short time). Idling for a short period will result in less wear than starting and stopping it.

There's a big difference between cold starting an engine, one that has sat for an extended period of time, and restarting one which has been shut off for only an hour or six.

Oil doesn't magically disappear from the bearing surfaces when an engine is turned off. The oil film will remain for quite a while. Now, there are designs where the filter is allowed to drain down and in those cases there can be a lack of, or at least low, oil pressure right at startup.

I really dislike cold starts, where the wear happens, but once an engine has been started I have no problem with shutting it down repeatedly.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

My 2018 MX5200 Regens at the drop of a hat. Seems like every 30 hours or so. Regen 3 times in 100 hours so far. I try to keep the rpms up. 1500 for traveling, 1800-2300 for work. This is often more rpms than needed to accomplish the task. Still it does it again and again...

Apparently some diesels (Cummins in pickups, for example) regens based on time, no matter what the circumstances are. Sounds like your tractor is doing the same thing.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Pre-Oiler and Back-Up Engine Oil Pump Have thought about this a lot

 

[rScotty]

Clearly the other posters here are not considering the regen systems now incorporated into many new tractors. If your tractor has one, know that "scootr's" advice is sound and you should disregard the others.
So then that is the question... does your tractor have this kind of emmision contol system or not?

What he says bears repeating. Us oldtimers can forget that there are now so many new tractor owners who are not aware of diesel engine history. It has been heavily impacted by emissions regulations.

Diesel engine design took a major change about 2012 to 2014. Before then, tractors were commonly idled a often and for long periods. They were made to do so. They ran very lean at clean at idle and idling them was common.

After that date the EPA mandated that all diesels over 25hp had to meet higher standards for soot particles. Most did that with Diesel Particle Filters (DPF) that require higher throttle use and regeneration.

Bottom line is that many older diesels idle OK because they were deliberately designed to do so.
Newer ones are not made to idle for long periods. It is as simple as DPF or not.

 

[Rockbadchild]

As for myself, I don't have the DEF emission system, I have no issue doing one or the other it all depend on the time... 5 minutes or less I would let it run 5 minute or more I would shut it down... so hooking up implements I let it run, getting down to pick up things I let it run, if its something that I don't know how long it will take or if I know it will take some times I would shut it down.

 

[scootr]

Apparently some diesels (Cummins in pickups, for example) regens based on time, no matter what the circumstances are. Sounds like your tractor is doing the same thing.

Maybe so ? I'll have to experiment a bit to find out. Seems to me I may be running excessive rpms (higher fuel consumption) than needed if the dam thing is just counting time not particulate build up.

 

[Roger66]

What he says bears repeating. Us oldtimers can forget that there are now so many new tractor owners who are not aware of diesel engine history. It has been heavily impacted by emissions regulations.

Diesel engine design took a major change about 2012 to 2014. Before then, tractors were commonly idled a often and for long periods. They were made to do so. They ran very lean at clean at idle and idling them was common.

After that date the EPA mandated that all diesels over 25hp had to meet higher standards for soot particles. Most did that with Diesel Particle Filters (DPF) that require higher throttle use and regeneration.

Bottom line is that many older diesels idle OK because they were deliberately designed to do so.
Newer ones are not made to idle for long periods. It is as simple as DPF or not.

Mine is a Tier 4 era, but under the HP cutoff. It's a Mitsubishi S3L2 engine.