Solar Farm #2, dangers involved.

[MossRoad]

Dumb question, but shouldn't the homeowner know what they're signing also know what they are responsible for cost wise after signing a contract?

Yep. That's why there should be a bond for returning the site to it's previous condition, or so I've read.

 

[bnold]

I’ve only read a few solar installation contracts. They all included a remediation bond. Not terribly different from a mining remediation bond.

 

[azbinder]

Actually they might have IF it was done correctly. I don't think it would be possible though for lack of river cooling water.

Arizona Public Service cools Palo Verde Nuclear Generating Station with treated sewage water from the City of Phoenix 91st Ave treatment plant. I remember when they put in the 72" pipeline. Approximately 40 miles.

 

[Torvy]

You can do what you want with your land...within the zoning. How is it fair that they change or ignore the zoning without the consent of those directly affected? It seems to me that all zoning changes should be allowed only with the approval of the owners of the adjacent properties AND the council or board over that county or municipality. The problem for most property owners is that they cannot keep going back over and over as the developer asks the council repeatedly to make changes.

We had a small empty lot behind us in the city. It faces an arterial road and was zoned for medical offices with a bunch of rules on what could go there. The zoning was in place when the property owner bought the land. (He is a professional developer) All of us neighbors went to the council meetings to object as they wanted 10 variances to code to build a 2 story monstrosity and open it up for any type of business. We stopped them...but they kept going back and we had jobs of our own. His only job was that mess. Now they have a building that has only 1 tenant.

Another idea would be to restrict zoning changes so it a request is denied there must be a 10 year wait for another request on that property. (Or something to that effect)

 

[JJT]

Only 300’ from a residence?
God help those poor souls.

Their homes will be devalued 50% and their dreams of being able to use the equity in their homes to improve their lives ruined forever.

I say build new nuke plants or clean NG plants on the sites of former coal plants. At least those sites have few people living near them and fewer lives ruined and we get more American jobs and give less money to the hostile CCP regime trying to destroy us.

In response to HayDude's 50% devaluation claim, that is utter nonsense. I'd like to see the data, please.

A very recent study of almost 2 million home sales sets the devaluation at 1.5% for homes within 1/2 mile of a commercial installation, homes further away than .5 miles saw no impact. In CT and CA having commercial solar as a neighbor had no impact on valuation.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

I have to keep on correcting posters on here. THEY ARE NOT SOLAR FARMS BUT RATHER INDUSTRIAL INSTALATIONS.

One thig that seems to cloud the overall view of them and that is, the compensation is real but so is the remediation and every solar company our township investigated, the remediation was 100% the responsibility of the land owner and remediation isn't cheap either. They don't last forever (solar installations) and in the end, the landowner bears the responsibility 100%

I will also add that they do not use the tier 1 panels that have a low degradation rate. which will last 30 to 40 years. Tier 1 panels typically have a 0.25% degradation per year.

Cheaper technology has a higher degradation rate and the panels will need to be cleaned up or changed out sooner.

Do you want panels installed that still produce 92 % of rated capacity (warranteed) after 25 years or one that produce 84% of rated (or less) capacity after 20 years?
Each installation is 33% paid by tax dollars (your money and my money), shouldn't we have a voice in this.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

You can do what you want with your land...within the zoning. How is it fair that they change or ignore the zoning without the consent of those directly affected? It seems to me that all zoning changes should be allowed only with the approval of the owners of the adjacent properties AND the council or board over that county or municipality. The problem for most property owners is that they cannot keep going back over and over as the developer asks the council repeatedly to make changes.

We had a small empty lot behind us in the city. It faces an arterial road and was zoned for medical offices with a bunch of rules on what could go there. The zoning was in place when the property owner bought the land. (He is a professional developer) All of us neighbors went to the council meetings to object as they wanted 10 variances to code to build a 2 story monstrosity and open it up for any type of business. We stopped them...but they kept going back and we had jobs of our own. His only job was that mess. Now they have a building that has only 1 tenant.

Another idea would be to restrict zoning changes so it a request is denied there must be a 10 year wait for another request on that property. (Or something to that effect)

In Washington State we have a new law that allows a state board to overrule any local ordinances and zoning if "green power" is involved. So it is legal to do this, becasue its the law here.

 

[ruffdog]

In the UK, a company heats a swimming pool with heat from the computers......very innovative.

We need forward thinking like this instead of the same partisan hate, conspiracy theories, and finger pointing if we are to solve problems like energy dependence.

Small But Powerful: Tiny Data Centre Heats UK Swimming Pool - News18

 

[Hay Dude]

In response to HayDude's 50% devaluation claim, that is utter nonsense. I'd like to see the data, please.

A very recent study of almost 2 million home sales sets the devaluation at 1.5% for homes within 1/2 mile of a commercial installation, homes further away than .5 miles saw no impact. In CT and CA having commercial solar as a neighbor had no impact on valuation.

And I‘d like to see your data that it won’t, please.
I’d bet anyone with a house next to a woods or field that gets hundreds of acres of solar panels 300’ from it devalues close to 50%, yes.

 

[bnold]

Globalists all squawk about ”level playing fields”. China has the playing field slanted in their behavior.
And there’s nothing wrong with competing and complaining at the same time. Human rights violations from Chinese manufacturing are known world wide. To have their crap created by slave labor when it should be US made is disgraceful.

I don’t know how anyone could support this questionable solar energy infrastructure, built by a very adversarial & hostile country, possibly with slave labor, replacing American infrastructure could be supported by ANY patriotic American.

Any solutions to offer considering big picture?

Not ALL Chinese manufacturing is slave labor/sweat shop, a huge problem in the textile industry known very well and probably populates a fair amount of the majority of American closets

Some Chinese factories are very high tech and very nice, far far away from slave/low wage or forced labor. Often, the company purchasing that product or that owns that factor has a lot to do with it.

China is an incredibly poor country per capita , but most any number and output times 1.5B equals a pretty strong GDP, only 2nd to the US (for now)

Fact is, economically, these 2 giants can’t live without one another.

China is as typical doing shady stuff, gaining interest in countries all over the world, gaining power at a rapid rate. We allow it.

Our Dollar is losing a foothold in the world economy, just look at Brazil or Saudi. Our administrations foreign policy is abysmal at best.

So called ‘police stations’ in the US are pretty shady as well, however that works out.

Foreign companies buying US land, no laws against that however we currently feel about it.

But yes, I can still be a patriotic American and realize China and other Asian countries are a huge player in the global economy. US made no longer guarantees superiors quality like it did 50-70 years ago. I’ll buy at a price point that fits the task at hand. My Singapore built solar panels are doing just fine and supported an American installation company. My Austrian inverter is doing just fine and supported an American installation company.

Massive solar installations going up all around me (within 5miles straight line). I’m not thrilled about the wind about to start in this area, but it isn’t my land and don’t fault those who are profiting from putting their land to work.

My in laws signed a contract recently, I hope it works out for them.


This thread is mostly about variances to local ordinances. There are procedures governing bodies have in place to grant those variances should they see fit. Notification process, hearings, etc. But ultimately down to the vote of a few often enough. Likely view the income potential and tax base more important than the feelings of a few land owners. Tough pill to swallow, but there it is.

Just like the eminent domain, really sucks when it impacts your land personally. Not a second thought running 80 on the interstate cutting through someone’s tillable land from 10 generations…


Side example, I host a 60’ monopole for an P-P internet carrier on one of my zones residential lots. Per county ordinances and reservoir ordinances, the property must be zoned commercial for a tower to be constructed (for business use). So some paperwork, notification to adjacent landowners, a county meeting and in 2 weeks time I had a 12’x12’ commercially zoned piece of property in my rural neighborhood. Just a piece of paper signed off by a handful of folks at the county seat. All it took.

 

[Hay Dude]

Whew, that was a windy one….
Anyway, my point is giving up our lands to cover them with very questionable chinese made solar panels, batteries and control systems sounds like a road to ruin for American energy, a huge benefit to China, and lower real estate values.
We now are at about 1/2 the global manufacturing level of the Chinese. Why make it worse?

 

[tacticalturnip]

The missus says Rome must fall for Christ to return; it's a bummer, but she certainly is the more knowledgeable theologian.

 

[bnold]

Whew, that was a windy one….
Anyway, my point is giving up our lands to cover them with very questionable chinese made solar panels, batteries and control systems sounds like a road to ruin for American energy, a huge benefit to China, and lower real estate values.
We now are at about 1/2 the global manufacturing level of the Chinese. Why make it worse?

Long winded maybe… but simplification of complex issues doesn’t do much.

The road to ruin for American energy or manufacturing is well… America.

What we chose to make too difficult to do here is easier elsewhere. So we shall choose to go elsewhere.

Let’s only manufacture things we need in the US. New law today. No ships allowed in port. Doesn’t actually work.


I’m not versed in the effects of lower residential values next to solar installations. I wouldn’t want to live 300’ or 1000’ from one. Of course my closest neighbor is about 800’ away and that is too close. Wouldn’t want to live that close to a feed lot either, but the undeveloped land on my west property line could be just that in a year, nothing I can do about it, zoned ag. Actually, I’d prefer solar over a feedlot any day.


The farm and ranch land with installations on it are increasing sharply in value here. It is actually becoming a thing, get solar on the property and in production and cash out in a sale in lieu of collecting the lease benefits over a longer term. Investors are playing some of this property.

 

[Hay Dude]

Long winded maybe… but simplification of complex issues doesn’t do much.

The road to ruin for American energy or manufacturing is well… America.

What we chose to make too difficult to do here is easier elsewhere. So we shall choose to go elsewhere.

Let’s only manufacture things we need in the US. New law today. No ships allowed in port. Doesn’t actually work.


I’m not versed in the effects of lower residential values next to solar installations. I wouldn’t want to live 300’ or 1000’ from one. Of course my closest neighbor is about 800’ away and that is too close. Wouldn’t want to live that close to a feed lot either, but the undeveloped land on my west property line could be just that in a year, nothing I can do about it, zoned ag. Actually, I’d prefer solar over a feedlot any day.


The farm and ranch land with installations on it are increasing sharply in value here. It is actually becoming a thing, get solar on the property and in production and cash out in a sale in lieu of collecting the lease benefits over a longer term. Investors are playing some of this property.

I’m opposed to covering the USA with Chinese solar panels, chinese batteries and millions of electric cars with a high content of Chinese parts.
Then you suggest I‘m a pure isolationist with nothing allowed to be imported.

Yep, you figured me out.

 

[bnold]

That will be $150/hr for your therapy session.

 

[Hay Dude]

you wish lol

 

[RSKY]

I honestly don't know how your "story" will play out with this solar farm, but I do mean this in the sincerest form... I hope you win.

I say that everyone has the right to do what they want to do on their own property, but I have not been in the position of your family members in their own position dealing with your neighbors.

My first thought is a solar panel has the right to be built on the edge of any property owner, but 1,000' away from any dwelling also makes sense. If you have enough property to lease for solar panels, 300' from your property line shouldn't really make a difference as that is only 100 yards.

In my own little world, I didn't have to make this a fight of my own. You're a pretty good man in my book for taking this up for your family,

What they want is 300' from a residence, not the property line. So the panels would be right against the property line away from the house that my grandkids live in. THAT is what has everybody so upset!

 

[RSKY]

I have to keep on correcting posters on here. THEY ARE NOT SOLAR FARMS BUT RATHER INDUSTRIAL INSTALATIONS.

One thig that seems to cloud the overall view of them and that is, the compensation is real but so is the remediation and every solar company our township investigated, the remediation was 100% the responsibility of the land owner and remediation isn't cheap either. They don't last forever (solar installations) and in the end, the landowner bears the responsibility 100%

As I have said earlier, there are three families getting the money for leasing the land to the solar company. They have been told that the land will be farmable after the lease is up. Some of our people have visited an 80-acre solar installation about an hours drive away and the soil is hard as concrete because they mixed Portland Cement with the soil and tilled it in.

The county will be on the hook for road work and problems with drainage downstream from the site. Also Mayfield Creek which flows thru the site sometimes floods out from a ten foot wide trickle to half a mile wide. The city of Mayfield has had problems with their newest elementary school being damaged by flooding. It is located about 3/4 of a mile from the creek on a '100 year' flood plain. it has flooded twice in twenty years. This is because of some minor land clearing close to the school after it was built. Now imagine two square miles with all trees removed and the ground leveled draining into the creek five miles upstream.

Who is responsible, Greengo, Banjo Creek LLC, or the landowners? Or will the City of Mayfield just have to suck it up and pay for the damages itself?

 

[RSKY]

You can do what you want with your land...within the zoning. How is it fair that they change or ignore the zoning without the consent of those directly affected? It seems to me that all zoning changes should be allowed only with the approval of the owners of the adjacent properties AND the council or board over that county or municipality. The problem for most property owners is that they cannot keep going back over and over as the developer asks the council repeatedly to make changes.

We had a small empty lot behind us in the city. It faces an arterial road and was zoned for medical offices with a bunch of rules on what could go there. The zoning was in place when the property owner bought the land. (He is a professional developer) All of us neighbors went to the council meetings to object as they wanted 10 variances to code to build a 2 story monstrosity and open it up for any type of business. We stopped them...but they kept going back and we had jobs of our own. His only job was that mess. Now they have a building that has only 1 tenant.

Another idea would be to restrict zoning changes so it a request is denied there must be a 10 year wait for another request on that property. (Or something to that effect)

Our county is not zoned.

 

[Sigarms]

What they want is 300' from a residence, not the property line. So the panels would be right against the property line away from the house that my grandkids live in. THAT is what has everybody so upset!

This is a dumb question, but are there any requirements on a minimum amount of land that is required to have one of these solar panel facilities?

100 yards away from a residential property line does not sound unreasonable to make it palatable for the people living in the area.

Both my neighbors are about 100 yards away from my house on each side, but neither have the land available to make an endeavor like this type of installation feasible IMO.