PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors?

   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #11  
My 15kw Winco pto generator starts my 5hp compressor, no problem at all, and it pulls 24.5 amps on 220V, so the start load must be pretty good.

SR
 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #12  
I was looking at Baumalight's site at the TX12 specifically, and it had a warning in the manual to not use for over 2HP motors or the generator could be damaged. I emailed Baumalight and they confirmed, none of the TX series are rated for more than 2HP regardless of watts, and they recommend the 4 pole KR or QC series. I have a 3HP well pump and need something to power it.

If Baumalight says this, do other manufacturers - Winco, Northstar, IMD, HF- have a similar requirement? I have looked at some of them but have never come across this type of warning.

For those with PTO generators, do you run motors larger than 2 HP and if so, are there any problems or issues?
I don't understand why their TX12 can't start a 3 hp motor. 12,000 watts is about 5 times the running wattage of your 3 HP motor. But what really matters is the current draw when starting. Depending on the motor and the mechanical load on the motor when it starts the starting current can be more, much more, than 5 times the running current. I think Baumalight is just trying to cover their butt because they don't know what the starting current of your motor is going to be.
Anyway, if you have already bought the generator all is not lost. Furthermore, if you haven't bought it but really want it or something similar you can still do so. What you need is a soft starter. Even though you can build one yourself I have a sneaking suspicion that you would rather not. So, for your size of motor, a soft starter can be had for less than 150 frog pelts, AKA greenbacks. For example check out this link: ATS01N112FT | Altistart 01 Soft Start (ATS01), for Asynchronous Motor, 12A, 110-480V, 1.5-7.5 HP, 1.5-5.5 kW, Single-phase, Integrated Bypass, w/Heat Sink Pack of 1 | Square D by Schneider Electric . $136.90 for a soft starter that can handle your 3 HP well pump while at the same time protecting your Baumalight generator. Of course you should ask Baumalight if using a soft starter is OK but it should be. After all what really matters is what the load is that the generator sees.
Cheers,
Eric
 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #13  
My 25 KW generac diesel also runs the 10 horse air compressor in the shop better than utility power does. I think I'd be looking at a Winco over a Bauma Lite.
 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors?
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Thank you for the replies. I have not bought one yet, but I’m getting very close to pulling the trigger. I like the Baumalight, but the warning may be a dealbreaker.

Here is what the response was from them, it could be a CYA statement or some deep electrical reason as mentioned above.

”The info is indeed correct & the TX series is a 2 pole unit & is not capable of handling the start up requirements of motors beyond 2 Horsepower. The KR or QC series are 4 pole winding units delivering a more consistent supply & are capable of handling such high start loads of larger motors”.

Looking at the 10KW and 16KW IMD, they’re on sale for the next week. I really like the AVR, although a Sense Flex or similar could do they same. However they don’t have surge ratings, just continuous.

I am also considering the 12k Northstar, it gets good reviews, with surge to 13kw. And the 15KW Winco.

On a slightly different question, for those with 60Amp plugs, how did you connect it to your house? I haven’t found a premade cord and manufacturers want you to buy the plug to install on #4/4 section of cord. That’s fine but what about the other end? Is it wired to the breaker or do you have an external plug?
 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #15  
If you didn't already have it on your radar check out welder generator sets. Check out the big blue diesels. As always you get what you pay for...

 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #16  
Thank you for the replies. I have not bought one yet, but I’m getting very close to pulling the trigger. I like the Baumalight, but the warning may be a dealbreaker.

Here is what the response was from them, it could be a CYA statement or some deep electrical reason as mentioned above.

”The info is indeed correct & the TX series is a 2 pole unit & is not capable of handling the start up requirements of motors beyond 2 Horsepower. The KR or QC series are 4 pole winding units delivering a more consistent supply & are capable of handling such high start loads of larger motors”.

Looking at the 10KW and 16KW IMD, they’re on sale for the next week. I really like the AVR, although a Sense Flex or similar could do they same. However they don’t have surge ratings, just continuous.

I am also considering the 12k Northstar, it gets good reviews, with surge to 13kw. And the 15KW Winco.

On a slightly different question, for those with 60Amp plugs, how did you connect it to your house? I haven’t found a premade cord and manufacturers want you to buy the plug to install on #4/4 section of cord. That’s fine but what about the other end? Is it wired to the breaker or do you have an external plug?
I wonder if being a two pole unit the stability and recovery of the unit is the limiting factor for high starting loads. The two pole design is going to have twice the hz drop as the four pole for the same tractor rpm drop with the initial load, and it may have more trouble recovering to a stable load situation.

As far as a "pre made" cord I have never seen on made for that amperage. Usually the gen set cord is terminated to a set of lugs in the transfer switch with the plug end for the generator.
 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #17  
Keep in mind that a 2 pole head has to spin at 3600 rpm to produce 60hz, where as a 4 pole head spins at half that speed. My diesel Generac is a 4 pole head, direct coupled to the JD turbo diesel engine.

Also, keep in mind that the larger generator you purchase, the bigger the tractor has to be to drive it.
 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #18  
Keep in mind that a 2 pole head has to spin at 3600 rpm to produce 60hz, where as a 4 pole head spins at half that speed. My diesel Generac is a 4 pole head, direct coupled to the JD turbo diesel engine.

Also, keep in mind that the larger generator you purchase, the bigger the tractor has to be to drive it.

Not necessarily, I've power a 35Kw genset with a 30 hp tractor which by all accounts could only "run" a 15Kw.
We were only using it for some corded tools so the load was very small only1200-4500 watts and the tractor had no problems running that genset. Now it could not have produced the full 35 Kw but it could have likely produced 12-16Kw.
 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #19  
Maybe I should have said at 'rated capacity' You can run any generator below rated capacity with less power obviously. Like my diesel Generac. With a light load it don't even get up on the turbo.
 
   / PTO Generator inadequate for larger HP motors? #20  
Just to add an option, I *think* you could make this work by getting other motors and adding them to the circuit, starting them one at a time. Even better if you add the right amount of capacitance across those motor's terminals to counter their inductance -- this is the amount of capacitance that minimizes the current draw when the motor is running at full speed with no load.
These motors will all act as flywheels to create the extra wattage it takes to start your large motor. The power grid has the same property, and this is where very short term power reserves come from (for example to handle an extra load for a second, which is way too brief to add generator capacity).
 
 

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