Modern Gas Tractor? What's the Chance?

[cathy liebchen]

They will all be electric soon

 

[Hay Dude]

They will all be electric soon

Probably so. It’ll take 30 years before all the gas & small diesel versions die off, and then another 30 before all the ICE collectors that keep them running die off.

Political winds could blow in a different direction and cause the slowing of the process, too.

 

[Rarefish383]

DISCLAIMER.....I'm not sure I really trust that 20 MPG in the welding truck, but he seems real happy with it compared to his old diesel.

My friend bought a used Ford Excursion, is that the big one, and was bragging how it was getting over 20MPG. I asked if he was actually doing the numbers or going by the display on the dash. He started keeping track of the actual gallons and miles, turned out it was only getting 15-16 MPG.I bought a new F150 2.7 twin turbo. Window sticker was $51K. It's a 2018 that somehow got stuck on the lot. I bought it the first day of 2020, only had 6 miles on it, for $35K. It gets an honest 20-21 mpg, sometimes up to 25. With my dual axle, 10,000 pound GVW dump trailer on empty, it drops to 17-18. Put my JD X738, about another 1000 pounds, it drops to 12-15. Put a cord of Oak firewood on it and it drops to 9-10 MPG. My old Ram only got about 12 MPG empty and would drop to 8-10 with a load of firewood.

My fishing buddy had a Chevy diesel that got a tad over 20 MPG. Pulling his 30' Contender it dropped to less than 10 MPG. For the "little" work I do, I don't need a big truck.

 

[Paystar]

I also know everyone likes to justify their purchases. I mean with all due respect Paystar (because I respect and like your posts a lot), there‘s no way a gas engine that revs higher with less torque pulls the same as a diesel that revs lower with considerably more torque or can get the same fuel economy.

It just can’t happen. Or if it can, I don’t understand how.
Maybe he had a 6.7 that had a problem?
Maybe he didn’t know how to drive a diesel?
Maybe a transmission with more gears and/or a rear axle with numerically lower ratio?

IMO, another reason for walking away from diesel is the PRICE of the diesel option.

A ‘23 Cummins standard output is now $9,300!!!

Ya, I don't know. I know most dash displays are not accurate, but I've been in that truck a few times and it's always showing 20 to 21 MPG.

That's what my F150 5.0 shows IF I drive it 55 MPH and like a law abiding citizen.
But it mostly shows 16 MPG when I'm on my way home from work, LOL

And don't misquote me....I didn't say they pull as strong as a diesel, I just said for what MOST people pull, they wouldn't notice a difference. But for those of us that have pulled 12,000 and more pounds, yes we would notice the diesel pulling stronger, LOL

Gas isn't the answer for everyone. But it is a viable option for many. Same with a gas farm tractor. Yes they did it in the old days. But I'm not sure how many would still want to farm a thousand acres today on an open station 26 h.p. tractor, LOL
But for an estate owner a gas tractor would be a good reliable option.

 

[Paystar]

I mean with all due respect Paystar (because I respect and like your posts a lot)

Thank you, and no worries. No offence taken.

 

[Paystar]

My friend bought a used Ford Excursion, is that the big one, and was bragging how it was getting over 20MPG. I asked if he was actually doing the numbers or going by the display on the dash. He started keeping track of the actual gallons and miles, turned out it was only getting 15-16 MPG.I bought a new F150 2.7 twin turbo. Window sticker was $51K. It's a 2018 that somehow got stuck on the lot. I bought it the first day of 2020, only had 6 miles on it, for $35K. It gets an honest 20-21 mpg, sometimes up to 25. With my dual axle, 10,000 pound GVW dump trailer on empty, it drops to 17-18. Put my JD X738, about another 1000 pounds, it drops to 12-15. Put a cord of Oak firewood on it and it drops to 9-10 MPG. My old Ram only got about 12 MPG empty and would drop to 8-10 with a load of firewood.

My fishing buddy had a Chevy diesel that got a tad over 20 MPG. Pulling his 30' Contender it dropped to less than 10 MPG. For the "little" work I do, I don't need a big truck.

My F150 5.0 seems pretty accurate too when I calculated gas receipts on a few trips.

I haven't towed north of me in the hills with it yet, but going east on a few trips which is pretty flat for the most part it will drop to 13 US MPG with my 16 foot tandem aluminum trailer with my RTV-X1100C in it and the same with my Ford 3000 diesel in it.
I was surprised I got same mileage with the heavier Ford in it, but I guess the tall flat cab on the RTV is like wall in the wind.

 

[Fixastuff]

I've run some 40ish horsepower vermeer and ditchwitch products and don't like them compared to the older models of the same machine that used to diesel. Don't seem as powerful, they had to be run at wot to do anything and drank way more fuel.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

I wouldn't give up the reliability of a mechanical diesel for a gas engine

Even if you go mechanical injection, you still have spark equipment to worry about

Then fuel burn. My 22hp lawnmower burns gas at the same rate my 50hp diesel tractor burns fuel. And the tractor covers a lot more acerage per hour, 46in deck vs 84

I would never consider it.

 

[Paystar]

I just started refreshing my 55 Allis Chalmers yesterday.

 

[rScotty]

I just saw in one of the tech journals that burden my mailbox that over-the-road trucks are going to high pressure water-flushable soot traps and DPFs instead of the high temperature regenerative burn-out types. That alone would make a huge difference in diesel operating costs for tractors as well as emissions.
rScotty

 

[Hay Dude]

I just saw in one of the tech journals that burden my mailbox that over-the-road trucks are going to high pressure water-flushable soot traps and DPFs instead of the high temperature regenerative burn-out types. That alone would make a huge difference in diesel operating costs for tractors as well as emissions.
rScotty

That’s interesting. So the soot traps retain all the soot and are serviceable more easily and use no fuel?

 

[Paystar]

I hadn't seen that one yet. I still get all the trucking trade magazines and emails, but I kinda don't look at them anymore.
I did see though that the new International S13 only has EGR and a simple regular turbo and does have a DPF or need regens. Sounds promising.....as long as it works better than the old Maxxforce.

 

[rScotty]

I hadn't seen that one yet. I still get all the trucking trade magazines and emails, but I kinda don't look at them anymore.
I did see though that the new International S13 only has EGR and a simple regular turbo and does have a DPF or need regens. Sounds promising.....as long as it works better than the old Maxxforce.

I saw the article in one of those advertising/tech coffee table publications. I think something ran in "Fluid Power", but the one I just found is in "Design World" January 2023.

Farm Tractors were exempt from tight emission regulations for a long time, and have only recently gotten involved with emission control equipment. But over the road trucking has had strict emission requirements for longer and the technology is more mature, Right now, trucks have mandated DPFs that can be removed and cleaned by baking at 1150F for 12 hrs. But after 3 or 4 bakings they heat crack & cost 3 to 7 thousand to replace. What the article was about is a company doing pressure water cleaning instead of baking.

Aqueous DPF Cleaning Machine - EcoClean

Click on their link to "Regeneration is not Cleaning" for a quick & well done overview of the technology.
It must be working; the company that used to roast the DPFs just built two new factories to make more of their new technology water cleaning machines.

Disclamer: I have no connection to any of these companys.... Only my own opinion that "regeneration" is based on poor science and does little toward solving the emissions problem.

rScotty

 

[paulsharvey]

Once again, didn't read everything, but for non-diesel, Industrial type engines; propane is probably a better choice then gas.

Would I buy one? If a propane tractor had simular specs, and was $5000 cheaper, yes, or if I could have went 30-35hp for same price as a 25hp, yes. If the price is close or same, no, I would buy the diesel.

 

[rScotty]

Over the life of the machine - and now that I'm old enough to make that judgement - the cheapest initial investment was always spending more up front for reliability. Second to that is simplicity of repairs. Using that criteria, the old style diesel wins, followed by propane, then gas, and then modern regenerative diesel.
rScotty

 

[Hay Dude]

I hadn't seen that one yet. I still get all the trucking trade magazines and emails, but I kinda don't look at them anymore.
I did see though that the new International S13 only has EGR and a simple regular turbo and does have a DPF or need regens. Sounds promising.....as long as it works better than the old Maxxforce.

Thats a VERY low bar to surpass. Amazing to see all those used Maxxforce trucks selling for peanuts, but even if you buy one cheap, you know you got troubles ahead.

 

[Paystar]

Thats a VERY low bar to surpass. Amazing to see all those used Maxxforce trucks selling for peanuts, but even if you buy one cheap, you know you got troubles ahead.

LOL. I don't know if they are any better if you delete them or not? But yes, you can buy them all day long for very cheap.

A contractor at the mine I work at now has the A26 475 in his truck and it has been good so far. I think just belt tensioner failures.

 

[Hay Dude]

I don’t know if they can be deleted? I think the problems are with EGR plumbing wrapped around the engine.

 

[Paystar]

I don’t know if they can be deleted? I think the problems are with EGR plumbing wrapped around the engine.

I know they can be DPF deleted, a company in Canada was doing them, but I'm not sure if they did anything with the mass EGR?
My International's had Cat's LOL

 

[jyoutz]

Well yes and no. For what most people pull....a average size travel trailer or boat, most would never tell the difference in power.

I know a guy that leases new F250's every 2 years. He pulls a fifth wheel travel trailer with a boat on a trailer behind it. He goes from Sault Ste. Marie to White River Ontario all the time, and it's nothing but hills.
He got tired of the cost of maintenance with the 6.7 Powerstroke so he just got himself a 7.3 gasser and he said he puts the exact same gallons in every time he fills up pulling the trailers up there that his diesel did.

And the owner of my local welding shop got a new Chev dually with the big gas engine in it. He has a welding machine in the back and full length tool boxes on both sides of the box rails, plus his torches and bottles.
He showed me his dash display and gas receipts and he's getting 20 MPG on the highway.
I never got that with my Powerstrokes....not since the old 7.3 Powerstroke.

The maintenance costs for a powerstroke is insane. That’s why I love my Cummins.