Moving from 1/2 ton truck to HD truck

[tbear640]

Take your time and look extensively , look far and wide take your time and acce nothing less than your looking for.

 

[RandR10]

Have a very sweet Ram 1500 Hemi truck I got new (leased) last year.

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

"When going to HD trucks, go straight to 1 ton"? That’s what I was thinking too. But I looked up the tow chart from GM’s own website and it is surprising. The 2500 gas can tow more than the 3500 gas (only a couple hundred lbs., likely the difference in weight between the 11.5 and 12.0" axles). The payload gain on the 3500 is less than 500 lbs. If you go diesel then there’s a couple thousand lb. advantage for the 3500, but that’s not really a huge deal either. Surprising though that on the gas trucks the difference between “3/4 ton” and “1 ton” is almost zero on paper.

If it's for towing you should be looking at torque numbers, where they get close to peak numbers, and how long they stay up there. The lower the RPM that torque comes on the better. Peak horsepower numbers do matter too but if you have to rev to 5-6 grand to take advantage of it, it won't amount to much with a trailer behind you. That said, the main advantage to the heavier pickups is that they're just physically heavier and handle a trailer better without being pushed around. Honestly before I had a 3/4 ton pickup, even with the only 165 HP half ton I never had a problem getting the load moving so much as stopping it and feeling stable going down the road. Hills were a bit of an issue too, but it did better than you'd think there as well. Now I've got literally twice the power, 100+ more ft-lbs of torque, 115 more cubic inches, and what feels like 10x the capability. I didn't even take a hit on MPG either. Most of that boils down to aero anyway, especially on the highway. If I was looking right now for a gasser I'd be eyeing the 7.3 Godzilla but I don't think you'll be disappointed in the GM 6.6 either. Now this is not an apples to apples comparison, because you've got plenty more power in your current half ton than I did, but my other points still stand. 3/4 or 1 ton pickups are superior in every other way.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Now this is not an apples to apples comparison, because you've got plenty more power in your current half ton than I did, but my other points still stand. 3/4 or 1 ton pickups are superior in every other way.

But...but...J9807 and the salesman said...

 

[WM75Guy]

To the OP - glad you found one to buy that fit your needs. As long as you are happy, and it sounds like you are, that is what matters. Not feeling comfortable towing something, feeling like you shouldn't be doing it, is a bad thing. I am on step 3 of my 3-step plan. Tractor too small, buy bigger tractor - WM75. Now trailer too small, buy bigger trailer - Big Tex 14GN 20+5 with Mega ramps. Now truck too small, buy bigger truck. I have been looking and had trouble finding one I liked. I finally found one in transit. It's a 2024 GMC 3500HD dually with the Duramax. Just waiting for it to show up at the dealer. It will look like this one except it doesn't have power steps, just factory chrome steps. Dealer said with those, I don't have to turn in my man card.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

Not feeling comfortable towing something, feeling like you shouldn't be doing it, is a bad thing.

I beg to differ. It's a really good thing when people feel like they shouldn't be doing it, I think.

Way too may oblivious drivers out there who apparently think there's nothing wrong with having a trailer oscillating behind them.

 

[WM75Guy]

I beg to differ. It's a really good thing when people feel like they shouldn't be doing it, I think.

Way too may oblivious drivers out there who apparently think there's nothing wrong with having a trailer oscillating behind them.

I agree that as a safety factor getting that feeling, knowing when you are doing something past your capabilities, is a good thing. I try not to have that feeling that I am pushing me and my equipment past our limit. When I get it, I know it's a bad thing, and remedy the situation.

 

[Jstpssng]

Why are people so adverse to an older clean Western truck. Like an OBS Chevy or GMC out of Oregon or Idaho with a perfect rust free body, needing slight maintenance and upkeep, those trucks are built 100 times better than anything you can buy new. Furthermore for 8-20 grand you save real money, parts are available and they are easy to repair.

If it’s a GM product it’s going to need a transmission. It’s a known problem , currently with a class action lawsuit. They were junk anyways, then used the wrong fluid but instead of owning up to it and doing a recall they put out a TSB… when these symptoms occur change the fluid and charge the customer. Any damage done to the transmission is also on the customers dime. They don’t stand behind their product and I will never own another GM for that reason.

 

[ruffdog]

If it’s a GM product it’s going to need a transmission. It’s a known problem , currently with a class action lawsuit. They were junk anyways, then used the wrong fluid but instead of owning up to it and doing a recall they put out a TSB… when these symptoms occur change the fluid and charge the customer. Any damage done to the transmission is also on the customers dime. They don’t stand behind their product and I will never own another GM for that reason.

Neighbor just had a transmission replaced on one of his 6.0 fleet trucks. I think he said it was out of warranty and he was surprised it was fully covered. Maybe different dealers in different areas can get positive results.

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Why are people so adverse to an older clean Western truck. Like an OBS Chevy or GMC out of Oregon or Idaho with a perfect rust free body, needing slight maintenance and upkeep, those trucks are built 100 times better than anything you can buy new. Furthermore for 8-20 grand you save real money, parts are available and they are easy to repair.

Some people either don't have the time or ability to do their own work. You are saving boat loads of money if you can do the work yourself but if you cant the savings is severely diminished. Also if you can't do the work you are at the mercy of your mechanic who may be a superstar or a butcher. I myself agree with you though. My "newest" truck is a 2003. But I also do all the work.

 

[Bentrim]

Can't figure one thing about "modern" trucks and towing.

Leave me explain -- Please. Do we need 800+ horsepower in a pickup??

Back in the 70's I hauled combines with a White Compact with CF 160 Cummins. Also hauled equipment with a 3/4 ton Ford F250 with a 354ci 120 horse Perkins diesel. When the Cummins in the White "died" (The boss himself spun a main bearing) The boss bought a larger White 9000 series I believe with a NH 220 Cummins.
Back in the 40's the fellow I worked for worked for a garage that had a contract with Tidewater freight. They hauled freight with Ford trucks that were equipped with flat head V8s with what 85 or 110 horses?

Even now most of the over the road tractors don't have the horses that modern pickups do.

Might be great to brag about a barnful of horses, but they need to eat.

Yep, as a young "kid" my first car was a 150 horse Corvair, 2nd was a 318 Charger with 340 cam and 4 barrel carb, 3rd was a 383 RT Challenger. One thing they all had in common was power AND 10 mpg. Of course that is when gas was cheap!!

 

[paulsharvey]

I went from a very used dodge dakota to a new Chevy 2500hd 6.0 4x4 in 2005, and sold that, and drove a very used Toyota highlander (and found a small trailer can replace a pickup), then sold that and bought a used 2019 Ram 1500 in late 2019. I really liked the 2500, but found 95% of the time, it was just a commuter vehicle, and gas/repairs were killing me. I now have a work vehicle, so my truck only gets as little as 10-15,000 miles per year, and I have wondered about finding an 2003-06 6.0 4x4. I do miss the pay load, but trailering, for everything under 8,000 lbs, I think the 1500 Ram does just fine.

Those 'cat eye' chevys are hot items with the teenagers, so finding an unmolested one is dang hard.

Son has a 2003 Chevy 1500HD 2WD, with the 6.0L, and it's funny how unresponsive it seems after driving both my 5.7, and multiple work trucks with the 5.7.

Also, 65% done with upper control arms, inner-out tie rods, pitman arm, idler arm/bracket, lower ball joints, on son's truck, and I remember I dont much like Having to work on a vehicle. It was 102 degrees the other day, and there were literally fire ants in my butt crack, while I was under the truck, trying to beat that pitman arm... the tools all were burning hot in the sun... don't know if I call that 'fun' anymore

 

[Deleted member 371759]

Can't figure one thing about "modern" trucks and towing.

Leave me explain -- Please. Do we need 800+ horsepower in a pickup??

Back in the 70's I hauled combines with a White Compact with CF 160 Cummins. Also hauled equipment with a 3/4 ton Ford F250 with a 354ci 120 horse Perkins diesel. When the Cummins in the White "died" (The boss himself spun a main bearing) The boss bought a larger White 9000 series I believe with a NH 220 Cummins.
Back in the 40's the fellow I worked for worked for a garage that had a contract with Tidewater freight. They hauled freight with Ford trucks that were equipped with flat head V8s with what 85 or 110 horses?

Even now most of the over the road tractors don't have the horses that modern pickups do.

Might be great to brag about a barnful of horses, but they need to eat.

Yep, as a young "kid" my first car was a 150 horse Corvair, 2nd was a 318 Charger with 340 cam and 4 barrel carb, 3rd was a 383 RT Challenger. One thing they all had in common was power AND 10 mpg. Of course that is when gas was cheap!!

Some people need HP and torque. Some people want HP and torque. To some their truck is nothing but a status symbol. OTR trucks just need to go forward on paved roads. Some people need to hook up a cattle trailer in the mud and haul 15 head out of the field or load up round bales and drive them into the field. Other people need smart phone chargers, giant screens and 1000ftlb of torque to get 3 bags of mulchhfrom the home depot.

 

[Hay Dude]

Have to agree

Some people need HP and torque. Some people want HP and torque. To some their truck is nothing but a status symbol. OTR trucks just need to go forward on paved roads. Some people need to hook up a cattle trailer in the mud and haul 15 head out of the field or load up round bales and drive them into the field. Other people need smart phone chargers, giant screens and 1000ftlb of torque to get 3 bags of mulchhfrom the home depot.

“I have more than you have”, self aggrandizement…
Its all the “me show” today.

People that impress me are the ones that do more with less, not less with more.

 

[350c]

I am fixing to order one of those, without the sun or moon roof. Do I turn in my card when I order it or when it is delivered? Also, who do I turn it in to, you or the dealership?

Some might say a real man wouldn't need AC or power windows....

 

[Blue Mule]

Can't figure one thing about "modern" trucks and towing.

Leave me explain -- Please. Do we need 800+ horsepower in a pickup??

Back in the 70's I hauled combines with a White Compact with CF 160 Cummins. Also hauled equipment with a 3/4 ton Ford F250 with a 354ci 120 horse Perkins diesel. When the Cummins in the White "died" (The boss himself spun a main bearing) The boss bought a larger White 9000 series I believe with a NH 220 Cummins.
Back in the 40's the fellow I worked for worked for a garage that had a contract with Tidewater freight. They hauled freight with Ford trucks that were equipped with flat head V8s with what 85 or 110 horses?

Even now most of the over the road tractors don't have the horses that modern pickups do.

Might be great to brag about a barnful of horses, but they need to eat.

Yep, as a young "kid" my first car was a 150 horse Corvair, 2nd was a 318 Charger with 340 cam and 4 barrel carb, 3rd was a 383 RT Challenger. One thing they all had in common was power AND 10 mpg. Of course that is when gas was cheap!!

The truck I bought is almost 5 years old. It's rated 450 HP/935 lb.ft. The new ones coming out today have 475/1050 standard with 500/1200 optional.

Do we need that much power? No. My ancestors got a lot of work done with a couple of mules and a poorly nailed together wooden cart.

The old trucks you're talking about were much like those mules and cart. They got the work done. But they did it slow. Very slow. And it took more trips to move the same material.

It sure is nice in 2023 to sit in a comfortable seat, with A/C blowing on my face on a hot day, with several tons of weight behind me, cruising in top overdrive gear effortlessly and sipping fuel. Truck isn't even working hard, it's a lot safer on the road, and it saves time and money. I mean, 13 MPG with a massive load behind me? 30 years ago a truck wouldn't get 13 MPG totally unloaded on a trip to the grocery store.

I have a special place in my heart for the trucks I had in the 1980s and 90s. But I would never go back. Never.

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

Can't figure one thing about "modern" trucks and towing.

Leave me explain -- Please. Do we need 800+ horsepower in a pickup??

Back in the 70's I hauled combines with a White Compact with CF 160 Cummins. Also hauled equipment with a 3/4 ton Ford F250 with a 354ci 120 horse Perkins diesel. When the Cummins in the White "died" (The boss himself spun a main bearing) The boss bought a larger White 9000 series I believe with a NH 220 Cummins.
Back in the 40's the fellow I worked for worked for a garage that had a contract with Tidewater freight. They hauled freight with Ford trucks that were equipped with flat head V8s with what 85 or 110 horses?

Even now most of the over the road tractors don't have the horses that modern pickups do.

Might be great to brag about a barnful of horses, but they need to eat.

Yep, as a young "kid" my first car was a 150 horse Corvair, 2nd was a 318 Charger with 340 cam and 4 barrel carb, 3rd was a 383 RT Challenger. One thing they all had in common was power AND 10 mpg. Of course that is when gas was cheap!!

Have to agree

“I have more than you have”, self aggrandizement…
Its all the “me show” today.

People that impress me are the ones that do more with less, not less with more.

If you think about it, do any of us need anything we have? Many people do just fine without tractor’s or trucks or side by sides, I’m guessing we don’t need them but they are what we work for. I didn’t work hard to just sit in the couch and watch the TV I don’t even really need because in the old days nobody had TVs.

What if some of us just like horsepower? I like it, I don’t buy anything to impress you or anyone else, I buy what I want to buy because it is my money.

 

[tacticalturnip]

Some might say a real man wouldn't need AC or power windows....

This real man really ought to get around to repairing the AC in his truck...

 

[Jstpssng]

Some might say a real man wouldn't need AC or power windows....

I guess that I’m not a real man then. It may not get hot up here the way that it does in other places but I like my AC… sometimes it can make the difference between calling it a day or going out and working a couple more hours after getting cooled down.
I used to jump into a stream to accomplish the same thing, but first had to find a stream.

People that impress me are the ones that do more with less, not less with more

I agree to a point. Where I draw the line though is when they are doing more with not enough… i.e., pulling a 10,000 lb trailer through town at 5:00 PM behind a 1/2 ton pickup with no trailer brakes. And it wasn’t even his trailer he was pulling behind his company truck.

 

[JimmyJ321]

I have been a Ram guy since way before Ram was a thing. My current truck is a 2021 Ram 3500 DRW with the "Max Tow" package. It came factory with the 50 gal tank, 4.10 gears, 4WD, Cummins 6.7L HO, Aisin Transmission, and the Ram Air Ride (auto leveling airbags). It also came with the Ram puck system for 5th wheel hitches or goosneck ball. I pull a 2021 Alliance Valor 40V13 triple axle toy hauler, that is very heavy. I also have a 35+5 22GN Big Tex goose neck trailer, for my tractor and such. This truck has been amazing. For me, my needs dictate a dual rear wheel truck, and this Ram 3500 tows like a freight train. It will, however, beat your fillings out driving it daily, with no load... very rough.

Get it deleted if you don’t have to go thru emission testing in your area. You will be amazed at the HP currently not being used.

 

[Darth_DMack]

Get it deleted if you don’t have to go thru emission testing in your area. You will be amazed at the HP currently not being used.

We don't have any emissions testing in SC. I own the truck too, not financed. I'm concerned about the delete procedure, because of my AISIN transmission. I'm understanding that there is no way to "tune" the transmission, and I don't know any shop around that will provide a "tune" for the computer, to make the engine think that the emission stuff is still intact. I want to get rid of the emissions stuff, to help keep the oil cleaner... these things are DIRTY!!!!