Buying Advice Tier V emission standards soon for new diesel engine tractors?

[ultrarunner]

I guess the definition of final isn't what we thought as in tier IV final?

They are also looking at tires for particulate matter.

The worst air in my lifetime which had never happened wasn't due to cars or industry or even a volcano...

The worst air being so bad the street lights stayed on day and night was from the hire dogs fires in Western States... days without seeing the sun.

Some fires turns out we're set on purpose by a pyro... others by lighting or accident by equipment.

 

[tradosaurus]

tell that to my 55 year old nurse wife that died of cancer.
your statement is remarkably insensitive and adds nothing to the discussion

He said "most". Sorry for your loss.

 

[NoTrespassing]

He said "most". Sorry for your loss.

Actually, I didn't say any of that. It was an exact quote from Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders in either 1993 or 1994.

"We know that AIDS is a ravaging disease in our country that is destroying our bright, young people. ... I feel that if we do not find a vaccine, do not find a good drug ... we are going to lose our entire society. ... Most of the people who die with heart disease and cancer are our elderly population, you know, and we all will probably die with something sooner or later."

 

[tradosaurus]

Actually, I didn't say any of that. It was an exact quote from Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders in either 1993 or 1994.

"We know that AIDS is a ravaging disease in our country that is destroying our bright, young people. ... I feel that if we do not find a vaccine, do not find a good drug ... we are going to lose our entire society. Most of the people who die with heart disease and cancer are our elderly population, you know, and we all will probably die with something sooner or later."

You should have posted all of the quote, but what you posted was:
"You know, most of the people that die with heart disease and cancer are our elderly population, you know, and we all will probably die with something sooner or later."

The entire quote is confusing and most people who get AIDS aren't bright.

 

[2manyrocks]

Wonder how long the commute is for those 17,000 EPA workers in the USA and now much pollution their mode of transportation spews into the air on an annual basis?

 

[koshari]

Wonder how long the commute is for those 17,000 EPA workers in the USA and now much pollution their mode of transportation spews into the air on an annual basis?

are you suggesting it would be higher than the mean/mode per capita?? otherwise whats the point of the statement??

 

[rScotty]

I guess the definition of final isn't what we thought as in tier IV final?

They are also looking at tires for particulate matter.

The worst air in my lifetime which had never happened wasn't due to cars or industry or even a volcano...

The worst air being so bad the street lights stayed on day and night was from the hire dogs fires in Western States... days without seeing the sun.

Some fires turns out we're set on purpose by a pyro... others by lighting or accident by equipment.

As in "Tier IV Interim" in 2007 followed years later by "Tier IV Final". Nothing was said or implied about how many Tiers it will take.
My problem with all this is not the EPA, but that the EPA is going after relatively minor contributors. I'd like to see them go after at least one of the major offenders. Big Oil or Big Anything instead of always chasing the little people.

 

[EddieWalker]

Follow the money.

Do what I say, not what I do.

Both of those sayings are why I don't believe anything the Government is saying. They don't apply any of those restrictions to what they do, and if it's OK for them to fly private jets, leave the AC running in their limo's while they are having lunch, and heat their mansions, then I'm not for changing anything in my life just because they tell me to.

Who is making money from this? The more they restrict emissions, the more they restrict energy, and the more regulations they put on what we can do, the more the Green Industry makes money selling us stuff that barely works and requires additional tax dollars to exist.

The only reason cars, trucks and tractors are so expensive is because of Government regulations. They want us to buy battery cars and tractors. We can guess why, and probably be correct, but there is no guessing that their mission is to make us all dependent on the electrical grid for everything we do.

 

[Chewwy]

You should have posted all of the quote, but what you posted was:
"You know, most of the people that die with heart disease and cancer are our elderly population, you know, and we all will probably die with something sooner or later."

The entire quote is confusing and most people who get AIDS aren't bright.

Wonder why the statement said “ probably die of something. I am darn sure we will ALL die of something.

 

[rScotty]

Wonder how long the commute is for those 17,000 EPA workers in the USA and now much pollution their mode of transportation spews into the air on an annual basis?

Wonder how long the commute is for those 17,000 EPA workers in the USA and now much pollution their mode of transportation spews into the air on an annual basis?

Seventeen thousand EPA commuters is a a lot of commuters, but only a tiny percent of the total. From Census.gov it's way less than one percent.

A question that captures more of the problem would go something like this:

" Since all commuters contribute to the pollution problem, and the EPA workers number less than 1%, then how many of the other 99+% are working to find a solution? "

If we can solve this, we need the number of people working on a solution to be a larger percent of the total.

rScotty

 

[Torvy]

I think the point on EPA commuters is that those 17k commuters probably, no, most assuredly, put out more pollution just in their commutes than the total output by <25HP tractors in the US.

Literally, shutting down the EPA would have more impact on improving the air quality than further restrictions on tractors.

 

[daugen]

as uncomfortable as it was, I adored driving my Super A.
until the wind blew the exhaust back in my face.
Had a marvelous Massey made in India, a Perkins clone, tier III, all manual, the kind of tractor
that lasts a hundred years all over the world. It didn't smoke at all. But I could definitely smell it.
Kubota L5740 was tier 4 early, didn't smoke and could only smell if started in the barn.
Massey 4707 was tier 4 final. It didn't smoke. It didn't smell. And no def at 70hp.

so far....emissions control hasn't been a problem for me. It all worked.
and I'm well old enough to know the early 70's when half our cars ran terribly due to early emission controls.
But they worked that out, you don't hear problems now I believe. And we have more horsepower now than ever.
probably too much in some cases.

they may have educated guesses as to health improvements by reducing the size of airborne pollutants, but
sure doesn't seem like they have thought out the financial aspects well.
How about a financial impact study, apply some standards used in approved business practices, and determine
positives and negatives. Because there will be negatives.
And there certainly will be an increased cost, usually always is, and if not dumped back on taxpayers, who is going
to pay for it? How about safety? if Tier 5 requires higher heat regen, just how much of a furnace do you want on your tractor?
You can't throw a new spec up on the wall and hope it sticks. They have already done too much of that with cars.
Here's our made up standard, you figure it out and build it or we'll fine the heck out of you.

of course with VW and Stellatlantis cheating on emissions on a worldwide stage, perhaps the governments can't trust the market
to self police.

seems hard to believe we need more than tier 4 final.
I think even new train engines are tier 4 something.
pretty sure we aren't going backwards on emissions though.
if the EU is at 5 ppm and we are at 12, perhaps peer pressure is driving this.

Jeff, you started this, what do you think?

shouldn't engine emissions standard be worldwide?
i think engine makers still building tier III for third world.
We shouldn't have to go to tier 5 to compensate.

 

[edgarrian]

As in "Tier IV Interim" in 2007 followed years later by "Tier IV Final". Nothing was said or implied about how many Tiers it will take.
My problem with all this is not the EPA, but that the EPA is going after relatively minor contributors. I'd like to see them go after at least one of the major offenders. Big Oil or Big Anything instead of always chasing the little people.

The biggest offenders are commercial airliners. Oil industry just gets the oil out of the ground. As I recall pipelines are the best ways to transport it from one place to another. Oddly we shut down building pipelines in favor of using trains or tractor trailers. Both of which have several accidents every year. Trains have always had around 2000-3000 derailments a year. So not a good choice. Do pipelines leak. Yes at times they do but its by far the safest way to move it.

 

[edgarrian]

as uncomfortable as it was, I adored driving my Super A.
until the wind blew the exhaust back in my face.
Had a marvelous Massey made in India, a Perkins clone, tier III, all manual, the kind of tractor
that lasts a hundred years all over the world. It didn't smoke at all. But I could definitely smell it.
Kubota L5740 was tier 4 early, didn't smoke and could only smell if started in the barn.
Massey 4707 was tier 4 final. It didn't smoke. It didn't smell. And no def at 70hp.

so far....emissions control hasn't been a problem for me. It all worked.
and I'm well old enough to know the early 70's when half our cars ran terribly due to early emission controls.
But they worked that out, you don't hear problems now I believe. And we have more horsepower now than ever.
probably too much in some cases.

they may have educated guesses as to health improvements by reducing the size of airborne pollutants, but
sure doesn't seem like they have thought out the financial aspects well.
How about a financial impact study, apply some standards used in approved business practices, and determine
positives and negatives. Because there will be negatives.
And there certainly will be an increased cost, usually always is, and if not dumped back on taxpayers, who is going
to pay for it? How about safety? if Tier 5 requires higher heat regen, just how much of a furnace do you want on your tractor?
You can't throw a new spec up on the wall and hope it sticks. They have already done too much of that with cars.
Here's our made up standard, you figure it out and build it or we'll fine the heck out of you.

of course with VW and Stellatlantis cheating on emissions on a worldwide stage, perhaps the governments can't trust the market
to self police.

seems hard to believe we need more than tier 4 final.
I think even new train engines are tier 4 something.
pretty sure we aren't going backwards on emissions though.
if the EU is at 5 ppm and we are at 12, perhaps peer pressure is driving this.

Jeff, you started this, what do you think?

shouldn't engine emissions standard be worldwide?
i think engine makers still building tier III for third world.
We shouldn't have to go to tier 5 to compensate.

I dont think it could be world wide. Fact is several countries are poor and the populous couldn't afford it. And the countries that mandate these aren't really changing much. Our political system thinks that if we get to net zero its going to change the world. It won't. Net Zero is crazy talk anyway. Im all for better running vehicles and better mpg but lets not make it to where vehicles have costly repairs at 50k to 100k

 

[wolc123]

as uncomfortable as it was, I adored driving my Super A.
until the wind blew the exhaust back in my face.
Had a marvelous Massey made in India, a Perkins clone, tier III, all manual, the kind of tractor
that lasts a hundred years all over the world. It didn't smoke at all. But I could definitely smell it.
Kubota L5740 was tier 4 early, didn't smoke and could only smell if started in the barn.
Massey 4707 was tier 4 final. It didn't smoke. It didn't smell. And no def at 70hp.

so far....emissions control hasn't been a problem for me. It all worked.
and I'm well old enough to know the early 70's when half our cars ran terribly due to early emission controls.
But they worked that out, you don't hear problems now I believe. And we have more horsepower now than ever.
probably too much in some cases.

they may have educated guesses as to health improvements by reducing the size of airborne pollutants, but
sure doesn't seem like they have thought out the financial aspects well.
How about a financial impact study, apply some standards used in approved business practices, and determine
positives and negatives. Because there will be negatives.
And there certainly will be an increased cost, usually always is, and if not dumped back on taxpayers, who is going
to pay for it? How about safety? if Tier 5 requires higher heat regen, just how much of a furnace do you want on your tractor?
You can't throw a new spec up on the wall and hope it sticks. They have already done too much of that with cars.
Here's our made up standard, you figure it out and build it or we'll fine the heck out of you.

of course with VW and Stellatlantis cheating on emissions on a worldwide stage, perhaps the governments can't trust the market
to self police.

seems hard to believe we need more than tier 4 final.
I think even new train engines are tier 4 something.
pretty sure we aren't going backwards on emissions though.
if the EU is at 5 ppm and we are at 12, perhaps peer pressure is driving this.

Jeff, you started this, what do you think?

shouldn't engine emissions standard be worldwide?
i think engine makers still building tier III for third world.
We shouldn't have to go to tier 5 to compensate.

Did the Super A have a smoke stack up on the hood ? My Farmal Cub has a low, rearward facing muffler as does my Ford 8n and I have never noticed the smell of the exhaust fumes on either of those. I do get a hot foot on the muffler side while running the Ford though.


My pre tier-4 Deere has a low, forward facing muffler and I never noticed the exhaust fumes from that, until I was downwind out front, loading the loader bucket.

 

[ultrarunner]

I like the rear exhaust but JD 110 has side exhaust so when I use it my remedy is wearing a respirator which is also great for dust and pollen...

 

[daugen]

Did the Super A have a smoke stack up on the hood ? My Farmal Cub has a low, rearward facing muffler as does my Ford 8n and I have never noticed the smell of the exhaust fumes on either of those. I do get a hot foot on the muffler side while running the Ford though.

I grew a literal ton of potatoes for two years, all went to local food pantry. The cultivators worked great

 

[Hay Dude]

People inhale smoke into their lungs, smoke weed, smoke vape pens, etc. We all foot the insurance bill for their addictions. The smokers all claim “it’s my right to smoke!!!! The government is addicted to the tax revenues, so that will never go away. That’s pathetic.

As far as the new regulations are concerned, the cost for “perfection” is too great to society.

Food will only increase in price with more pollution regulations. As it does, more people will starve to death.
The cost of energy is also increasing due to more stringent pollution standards, so more people will freeze to death.

Perfection actually causes death.

 

[Hay Dude]

As in "Tier IV Interim" in 2007 followed years later by "Tier IV Final". Nothing was said or implied about how many Tiers it will take.
My problem with all this is not the EPA, but that the EPA is going after relatively minor contributors. I'd like to see them go after at least one of the major offenders. Big Oil or Big Anything instead of always chasing the little people.

Problem with that is when you go after big oil or big steel or big pharma, you get a corresponding big loss in American jobs, or a big increase in the price of the products they produce.
We don’t need to be chasing more jobs off shore.
No, we’ve done enough of that.

The air, soil and water have been cleaned-up considerably. Let’s pump the brakes on going after the remaining few “big” companies we still have here, K? I’m not into having everything I buy made in China.

Do these ivy-league types even consider the pollution made by ocean going freight ships to bring goods 8,000 miles to us, versus making more goods here?

 

[Hay Dude]

The biggest offenders are commercial airliners. Oil industry just gets the oil out of the ground. As I recall pipelines are the best ways to transport it from one place to another. Oddly we shut down building pipelines in favor of using trains or tractor trailers. Both of which have several accidents every year. Trains have always had around 2000-3000 derailments a year. So not a good choice. Do pipelines leak. Yes at times they do but its by far the safest way to move it.

^^^THIS^^^

When you look at the intelligence level of the folks who shut down the construction of pipelines, one can sharpen their intelligence level on who to vote for in coming elections.