Water in fuel causes $10,000 damage to my Kubota Grand L6060

[Lineman North Florida]

I feel that I am doing a lot to avoid fuel problems.

I add Power Service Diesel Fuel and Tank Cleaner to every 100 gallons I put in my nurse tank. Clear-Diesel Fuel & Tank Cleaner

I have a 'water block' filter on my nurse tank.
The suction end is about 1-2" off the bottom of the nurse tank
I check the water separator for signs of water almost every time I start the tractor. (there were no signs of water this time)
I buy diesel to fill the nurse tank at different fuel stations. (I look for lower prices).

I really don't know what more I can do. I guess I could add another filter as @5030 suggests.

I welcome any

Do you have a drain on your bulk tank? It allows you to do a quick sample on your tank and if there is water in the fuel it will show up off your sample from the bottom of your tank. I double filter also one filter for trash particles and the other a water block filter I also treat my bulk tank with a product from Power Services, all of this may be overkill but knock on wood it's been working for a long time, you and I both live in an extremely humid environment so moisture in bulk tanks is an ongoing battle, but you can stay ahead of it.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Do you have a drain on your bulk tank? It allows you to do a quick sample on your tank and if there is water in the fuel it will show up off your sample from the bottom of your tank. I double filter also one filter for trash particles and the other a water block filter I also treat my bulk tank with a product from Power Services, all of this may be overkill but knock on wood it's been working for a long time, you and I both live in an extremely humid environment so moisture in bulk tanks is an ongoing battle, but you can stay ahead of it

My nurse tank is a 100 gallon tank on my Ram 3500 flatbed dually. I sure do wish it had a bottom drain, but it does not.
Several years ago, I was having issues with my nurse tank, so I bought a new one. It seems I'm having the same issues with the new tank, which is 5 or 6 years old now.

 

[Hay Dude]

My nurse tank is a 100 gallon tank on my Ram 3500 flatbed dually. I sure do wish it had a bottom drain, but it does not.
Several years ago, I was having issues with my nurse tank, so I bought a new one. It seems I'm having the same issues with the new tank, which is 5 or 6 years old now.

Well that would indicate a possibility that you are buying it from a poor-quality source.
You said you price shop fuel. So do I, but I will not buy anywhere I suspect is shady.
I have found out there are shady sources of fuel.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

Well that would indicate a possibility that you are buying it from a poor-quality source.
You said you price shop fuel. So do I, but I will not buy anywhere I suspect is shady.
I have found out there are shady sources of fuel.

You may be correct. But, I usually buy from a busy truck stop. My work takes me all around the state, and I just watch for lower prices as we travel. I can save as much as $0.50 per gallon, which can add up over time.

But, it may not be worth the savings. I just don't know how I could tell if I'm buying at a place that sells good clean fuel, or not.

I think these newer tractors with the common rail fuel systems are a lot more sensitive to fuel issues. Mine are all Kubota tractors, and I don't know if other brands have the same issues. I just need to figure out how to deal with it. I sure wish Kubota would come up with a fix. I guess I should join the Kubota tractor forum and do some research there.

 

[Hay Dude]

You may be correct. But, I usually buy from a busy truck stop. My work takes me all around the state, and I just watch for lower prices as we travel. I can save as much as $0.50 per gallon, which can add up over time.

But, it may not be worth the savings. I just don't know how I could tell if I'm buying at a place that sells good clean fuel, or not.

I think these newer tractors with the common rail fuel systems are a lot more sensitive to fuel issues. Mine are all Kubota tractors, and I don't know if other brands have the same issues. I just need to figure out how to deal with it. I sure wish Kubota would come up with a fix. I guess I should join the Kubota tractor forum and do some research there.

That could be your issue. You are buying from unfamiliar places, concentrating on price first.
I’d hit the road with 100G on board, purchased from a trusted supplier.
If you have to buy on the road, maybe ask around? If the place looks like a ghost town, ride on. Stop at busy places that move lots of diesel.

Next, what is the micron number on your tank? How often are you changing? I change every 3-4 months.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

That could be your issue. You are buying from unfamiliar places, concentrating on price first.
I’d hit the road with 100G on board, purchased from a trusted supplier.
If you have to buy on the road, maybe ask around? If the place looks like a ghost town, ride on. Stop at busy places that move lots of diesel.

Next, what is the micron number on your tank? How often are you changing? I change every 3-4 months.

It looks like my filter is a 17 micron. Amazon.com

I change it when I notice the flow is starting to be restricted. I don't really use a lot of fuel. I may fill my 100 gallon tank 4 or 5 times a year.

 

[LouNY]

I've never heard or seen this. How often do you replace it?

Annual does it for me, then the pump has a particulate and a water block filter.
I do also use a biocide.

 

[5030]

I have a filter on my pump head on my bulk tank as well but my philosophy is, you really cannot over filter diesel fuel today which is why I added the polishing filters between the fuel tanks on my tactors and the fuel injection pump in front of the stock spin on filter and sediment bowl. For me, it's cheap insurance.

 

[ponytug]

I feel that I am doing a lot to avoid fuel problems.

I add Power Service Diesel Fuel and Tank Cleaner to every 100 gallons I put in my nurse tank. Clear-Diesel Fuel & Tank Cleaner

I have a 'water block' filter on my nurse tank.
The suction end is about 1-2" off the bottom of the nurse tank
I check the water separator for signs of water almost every time I start the tractor. (there were no signs of water this time)
I buy diesel to fill the nurse tank at different fuel stations. (I look for lower prices).

I really don't know what more I can do. I guess I could add another filter as @5030 suggests.

I welcome any advice.

Did you add a Racor prefilter on your tractor? If not, I would do it now. They are available in models with clear lower bowls that have a drain and a hookup for a water in fuel sensor.

I think that you need to stop, drain your nurse tank, and have your local radiator shop steam clean it out. I then would be tempted to take it to a welder and get a drain put in, and perhaps two upper access ports, one for a breather, and one to return fuel. (See below)

I would then check all the fuel caps to see what could be replaced / improved. How much time does your tractor / tank spend in the rain? Getting pressure washed?

Then change your diesel buying habits and stick to a major brand (Shell /Chevron) for a while (six months / a couple of years) to see if that eliminates your issues. On your first couple of fills in your shiny newly clean tank, I would be adding biocide to every fueling. I wouldn't be adding water emulsifiers as they shift the water in the fuel farther into your engine which is not very tolerant of water. I would then change the Racor and Kubota filters preemptively and at the same time with fresh filters, with no prefilling the filters.

My nurse tank is a 100 gallon tank on my Ram 3500 flatbed dually. I sure do wish it had a bottom drain, but it does not.
Several years ago, I was having issues with my nurse tank, so I bought a new one. It seems I'm having the same issues with the new tank, which is 5 or 6 years old now.

This suggest to me that either you are buying poor fuel, or that your pump / cap on your nurse tank leaks water into your nurse tank, or that possibly your tractor cap leaks water. I think that you should make sure that your pump doesn't have any leaks either in its threads, or that it might have some air vent (anti-siphon) of its own that is leaking water.

If you have a free port on your nurse tank, I would add a drying vent with indicator. If not, I would also upgrade to a fuel cap that seals, not with a built in lock that leak water.

https://diesel-fuels.com/desiccant-fuel-tank-vent-breathers/

What brand nurse tank do you have?

Finally, keep your nurse tank and your tractor tanks as full as you can. If you fill a tractor, fill the nurse tank that day, and ASAP. You are fighting Florida humidity, and the heat and humidity is just really hard on diesel. Any empty space in the tank overnight is going to suck water into your diesel.

Have you upgraded your tractor fuel cap?

I have seen Mil-spec fuel tanks that had a golden rod type water block filter and a small recirculating pump that constantly polishes the fuel in the tank. You might consider doing that; any time the truck is running, the fuel in the nurse tank is being polished. Other diesel engine designs do a similar thing of pulling more fuel than is needed across all the filters, and returning the excess to fuel tank. It is a great way to get great quality fuel.

Good luck! I really think that you dodged a bullet this time around, and if it were me, I would be very thankful.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Bob Rooks]

Racor makes a small 2µ filter assembly.
Wtf is a "nurse tank"?

 

[Hay Dude]

Racor makes a small 2µ filter assembly.
Wtf is a "nurse tank"?

Its another name for a mobile fuel cell. We called them NT’s when they were mounted on a trailer.

 

[Bob Rooks]

Its another name for a mobile fuel cell. We called them NT’s when they were mounted on a trailer.

Is that like a bladder?

Amazon.com

 

[Complete Turf Care]

This is the 'nurse tank' that I have. Maybe I should call it a 'transfer tank'.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/better-built-rectangle-transfer-tank-black-steel-100-gal

Lots of good ideas and suggestions here. Thanks! Now, I am considering having a welder build me a new tank with a sump and a drain at the bottom and a port for a desiccant/breather.

 

[5030]

Finally, keep your nurse tank and your tractor tanks as full as you can. If you fill a tractor, fill the nurse tank that day, and ASAP. You are fighting Florida humidity, and the heat and humidity is just really hard on diesel. Any empty space in the tank overnight is going to suck water into your diesel.

Good advice, keeping your bulk tank as full as possible as a partially full tank in a climate with large swings in ambient temperature can and will sweat inside (get condensation on the inner walls, just like a cold glass of beer sweats on the inside of the glass above the liquid and it drips down into the liquid (in the case of diesel) and with diesel collects on the bottom of the tank and when you draw diesel from the tank, it gets sucked up with the fuel. Why I have my pickup tube for the pump a couple inches off the tank bottom btw as I cannot refill the tank with a little bit because my diesel supplier has a minimum150 gallon fill or they impose a surcharge. I never fill mine completely full either as expansion of cold fuel when it expands can cause it to expand out of the tank and spill out and NEVER weld on any fuel tank, empty or even cleaned inside, you'll never get the vapor out and it will explode. We are professional welders here (I own a machine and fab shop and we NEVER weld on any enclosed tank, fuel or otherwise. Been many 'accidents' happen and welder killed by doing that, well documented also). That includes ANY fuel or solvent tanks. If the tank don't have an existing bung on it, buy or rent a NEW one, no exceptions. Finally, I'm not at all keen on the vapor collectors as fuel vaporized much sooner than water and the internal condensate inside the tank will drop into the fuel, long before it will vaporize and collect in the dessicant collector. It will drop into the fuel and collect in the bottom of the tank. Why I have a bung with a valve at the bottom of mine and drain it off monthly and my tank is sitting slightly off level with the drain bung at the lowest point and I still have a filter on the pump head and still use a Racor style filter on my tractors. Never too many filters. Like I said, an ounce of cure is worth a pound of foolishness. Never had a water or debris in fuel issue except one time and that cost me a grand in replacement parts and I did the grunt work myself and had to have all my injectors rebuilt as well. That was years ago when parts were actually reasonably priced. Your choice, actually anyone's choice. Pay me now or cry later.

 

[5030]

This is the 'nurse tank' that I have. Maybe I should call it a 'transfer tank'.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/better-built-rectangle-transfer-tank-black-steel-100-gal

Lots of good ideas and suggestions here. Thanks! Now, I am considering having a welder build me a new tank with a sump and a drain at the bottom and a port for a desiccant/breather.

You can buy or rent a bulk tank from almost every fuel supplier and they rent cheap. Your 'transfer tank' is small compared to the one I have in my farm truck. Mine is diamond plate aluminum and it's a 175 gallon and it's for sale btw. It has a manual diaphragm pump on it as well and it's polished aluminum with hold down tabs for hard mounting in the bed. I don't use it anymore as my tractors get really good fuel 'mileage' so I can get home if they need filled an if not, a plastic 5 gallon fuel can gets me back 100% of the time. We didn't build it, I bought it and it's an EPA certified tank as well. I paid around a grand for it new, I want 500 for it and you pick it up or I can ship it for an additional cost. It's mint, no dent's no leaks. I'm in southern Michigan but I can ship it anywhere for the ship price. Has a lockable pressure venting fill cap and the pump is lockable as well. If anyone is interested you can shoot me an email at sales@flipmeisters.com and I'll reply and I guarantee it's pristine or I'll give you your money back.

 

[5030]

Not a shamelss ad either as I don't offer my services or sell anything on this site. What we do, we have way more business than we can handle anyway. We deal with automotive suppliers and heavy construction companies. We are booked out through next fall right now and they are all bid jobs, except the motorcycle accessories I make myself and those are sold on Flea-Bay or through my .com website. Nothing I make myself is of interest to anyone on here anyway and yes, I hold patents on the stuff as well, for what a patent is worth today which is basically nothing. Not when you have the Chinese copying everything and selling it for less.

 

[thclimer]

Have you ever thought of a Mr. Funnel?

They can be a little slow but if you purchase the largest size it has a higher flow rate (15gpm). There is also always some fuel left over in the bottom of the funnel that needs to be dumped. They also filter any sediment. It may be a quick solution until you obtain something more permanent for your bulk storage.

Home

 

[ericm979]

If your storage tank is tilted a bit any water below the fuel will run down to the low end. If that end also has the intake for the pump and hose, the water will go into the tractor. But if it's tilted backwards the water will run to the other end, and if you have a drain there you can drain some of it out (not all unless the drain is on the bottom of the tank instead of the side).

When the tank heats up the air expands and some goes out the vent. When it cools, the air contracts and air is inhaled. If that air's got a lot of water in it and the metal of the tank cools below the dew point, water will condense on the tank walls. This is why you want to keep the tank full- there's less volume of air.

Reducing the tanks daily temperature change would reduce the amount of air the tank breathes in and out each day, and thus the amount of water. Painting it white or putting it in the shade or both would help.

 

[jonsstihl]

great suggestions, tilting the tank would be easy to do with shims on the side the pick up is located on.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

I do have the larger Mr. Funnel. It is a bit cumbersome to use, because it is slow, and there is always some fuel left in the bottom of it.

Most of the time, the truck that the transfer tank is mounted on, is parked so that it is slightly tilted so that the 'pick-up' tube is on the high side. But sometimes, tilting the truck is not possible, especially when on a job site.

I have ordered 2 of the 'New Pig' water absorbing tubes. I will put one in the tank tomorrow.

I did try pumping from the bottom of the tank with a 12volt pump, but that pump quit working. I have a new pump, and I may try that again when I have time.