Massey Ferguson 1740M Hydro: LOSS OF POWER when hot!

[TopSpeed1]

My dealer is baffled by this problem, they had the tractor for almost 4 weeks. I guess a computer update was supposedly the cure. It was returned to me and was not the cure. I want to stress the time(s) in the video that the occurrences happen. My MF 1740M has plenty of power and torque until about 40 minutes of mowing with a light to medium load; as lawn was actually mowed the day before, so this is a re-mow or mulch so to speak. (video edited so you don't see all the in-between). I made the video thorough because I need to emphasize the good run time to power loss / malfunctioning gap. My dealer was told, but it's hard to understand if you're on it for even 20 minutes, it's going to be fine. And, with no load?, it may be over an hour! (I'm not actually sure cuz I only use the tractor w a load/chores). While mowing; Kicking in the A/C makes the loggy-ness happen a tad earlier (~40mins vs ~50mins).

I posted this on one other tractor forum and that's it, I didn't post this on my main Youtube Channel (with 25K Subscribers), so YT surfing trolls shouldn't pickup on this and start the "You shoulda got a Deere!" etc. I want the issue addressed and corrected, I don't want to buy a different tractor as my fix. Appreciate any contributing comments....

 

[Tinhack]

Please explain your use of the term HOT. The gauge says otherwise.

1. Have you verified the engine is "hot"? How?
2. Have you checked the radiator for blockage?
3. Have you checked the coolant level?
4. Have you checked the oil level?
5. Is it trying to do a regen?

 

[TopSpeed1]

Please explain your use of the term HOT. The gauge says otherwise.

1. Have you verified the engine is "hot"? How?
2. Have you checked the radiator for blockage?
3. Have you checked the coolant level?
4. Have you checked the oil level?
5. Is it trying to do a regen?

@Tinhack All good q's, let me explain my term "Hot" first. I use this term because the tractor is well into the running/working mode temps which is about the ~40min mark (Way past any normal warm-up period). The temp gauge (shown in the video) shows only 2 to 3 bars, it's very dim but the engine is NOT overheating. You can raise the hood and even touch most components, not the turbo or exhaust of course.

1. So "Hot" is not overheating. Just a term I use for more that just warmed up, maybe I should say "Working load temp"?
2. Radiator is fine
3. Clear and Full
4. Oil changed and at top level on stick, both fuel filters changed now twice since.
5. Being that I own a new F350, and a Mercedes diesel E250 car, I'm well aware of regens. It could be this for a short period of time, but not all Mowing season.

This power loss is at ~40 min mark of mowing and with every mow job, and slightly gets worse the more I go beyond that 40min mark, well, until I finally surrender and put it back in the pole barn. The next day, I hop back on and I have another ~40 mins of mow time and with full power, it's like nothing ever happened that prior day. Hence my frustrations.

So Tinhack, all of these 5^ are ruled out, by the dealer as well. My initial guess was injectors. If they get hot, they (can) vaporize the fuel less efficiently. Basically instead of misting in the fuel, it squirts the fuel into the cylinders leading to very poor power [combustion] and bad mileage. Exactly as I got! I mentioned this to my dealer and it wasn't explored, at least to my knowledge.

 

[Dmacleo]

don't suppose there is a chance the hydro system is plugging/getting hot (fan blocked)/etc created the illusion of loss of power?

 

[TopSpeed1]

don't suppose there is a chance the hydro system is plugging/getting hot (fan blocked)/etc created the illusion of loss of power?

I have to put this in the possibility category, and, will not rule it out!. The hyd filter and fluid got changed around the 100hr mark if I'm remembering.

Did not know there was a fan on the Hydro system? hmmm.

 

[Dmacleo]

I have to put this in the possibility category, and, will not rule it out!. The hyd filter and fluid got changed around the 100hr mark if I'm remembering.

Did not know there was a fan on the Hydro system? hmmm.

the GC series have one, no idea of other models do.

 

[loggin]

I have to put this in the possibility category, and, will not rule it out!. The hyd filter and fluid got changed around the 100hr mark if I'm remembering.

Did not know there was a fan on the Hydro system? hmmm.

What type of mower do you have? Is it possible that something is dragging in the mechanism of the mower? Could be one or more spindles, gear box, belt pulley? Check to see if some of these items are getting abnormally hot.

Just trying to brain storm here.

 

[JWR]

What type of mower do you have? Is it possible that something is dragging in the mechanism of the mower? Could be one or more spindles, gear box, belt pulley? Check to see if some of these items are getting abnormally hot.

Just trying to brain storm here.

Good point -- maybe some aspect of the mower gets hot after about 40 min of usage and begins to load down the tractor or at least increase the load on it. Gearbox on the mower ? Something else on the load side rather than the tractor itself?
Another afterthought: Maybe the turbo is not getting lube correctly and gets hot enough after 40 min or so that it stops giving boost?

 

[JWR]

I have to put this in the possibility category, and, will not rule it out!. The hyd filter and fluid got changed around the 100hr mark if I'm remembering.

Did not know there was a fan on the Hydro system? hmmm.

Any chance that some accidental "other fluid" might have been put in the hydro system? I'm not talking just a brand difference or claims of some wonderful performance of the OEM trans fluid, I mean some totally different oil not intended for a hydrostatic transmission?? If you changed it yourself you probably know exactly what went in but if someone else did it ?? This is something a dealer would be very unlikely to think of.

An unrelated different thought: Have you tried this machine on serious loads, heavier towing, tilling, large bush hog, etc.? It might be instructive to try some of that since all we know of that you are doing looks like VERY light lawn mowing. Actually another good test would be super heavy high grass rather than the lawn. I agree that the hydro mid-range ought to be "right" but what does it act like if you shift to low range?

I assume you are running the 72" mid-mount mower which might be a good load in heavy grass but your 40hp tractor should not be challenged at all. 40hp is a rather large lawnmower... Yep, you do have a puzzle going here.

 

[TopSpeed1]

What type of mower do you have? Is it possible that something is dragging in the mechanism of the mower? Could be one or more spindles, gear box, belt pulley? Check to see if some of these items are getting abnormally hot.

Just trying to brain storm here.

Would be a good call, but even when dis-engaging the mower (after work load of ~40 mins), it still acts like 10hp, really more like 5hp, but this is a heavy diesel vs a small and lighter gasser, so I'll be gracious and say 10!

The mid mount (underbelly) mower is a 72in Massey model MF1705

 

[TopSpeed1]

I have a MF backhoe also that I put on this Spring. Same as mower, awesome power to pull stumps early on, but that brute force is minimal towards the end of the job. I haven't timed that loss of power however.

I also have a Snow Pusher that is rather large for this size tractor. We haven't had any big snow dumps in a couple of years help. Here's my video of my (this) tractor killing it a few winters ago, I mean it was a beast as in the title....

 

[TopSpeed1]

@JWR
My leftover 5gal pail says Permatran 821XL. It's got about half full left, and I know I used another full one as I looked up my purchase from Amazon. So I got about 7.5 gals changed?. I do remember when filling the site glass was not good to actually see the level, and I struggled with this. Can't remember much more other than the filters were under the Left Rear wheel cover, and, I thought I was doing this maintenance ahead of time and it really wasn't due till 250hrs?. I probably am wrong on this, my memory has gone to crap ever since I hit that magic 50!

Should I have used another oil? I thought I searched it back then, but maybe I screwed up and took a cheaper route.

 

[TopSpeed1]

@JWR
I will order in and change Hyd oil again, what oil should I be using? I'm at a point where 400$ in oil and filters is an easy assurance and a sure checkoff from my list.

....I really didn't relate this problem to the hydrostatic drive, I was focusing more on a direct engine issue like bad injectors that get hot and do not compress and mist the fuel for combustion/ efficiently.

 

[seville009]

Maybe I missed it, but had it been running fine, and then this issue just started, say, a month (or whenever)ago?

If so, what, if anything may have been done to or changed on the tractor around the time that this problem began?

 

[TopSpeed1]

I see my last order I had this for $129, it's up to $179 now. Not surprised, everything has gone up but if it's not the Hyd oil everyone is using right now, like a total synthetic, I'll go that route.

Amazon.com

 

[TopSpeed1]

@ seville009

It might of been active this winter during snow plowing?, but where I live, we really didn't have much snow fall to actually use it beyond the 40 min mark. SO, I'm not sure it was something I did, or something that progressively has shown up.

My first route of thinking after having the issue (it was basically idle over winter and in my pole barn). Did a critter get into the air intake/filter etc? That was checked, okay. I then went the route of engine failure or maybe turbo failure, my dealer didn't pursue any of this. I've been pulling my hair out for the last 2 Months.

I'm now going to re-change my Hyd oil, I think!?. Maybe I'm grasping at straws at this point. But my dealer is stumped as well, so I need to try anything right now and oil I can do myself. A turbo or injector replacement, not so.

 

[JWR]

@JWR
I will order in and change Hyd oil again, what oil should I be using? I'm at a point where 400$ in oil and filters is an easy assurance and a sure checkoff from my list.

....I really didn't relate this problem to the hydrostatic drive, I was focusing more on a direct engine issue like bad injectors that get hot and do not compress and mist the fuel for combustion/ efficiently.

Oh No ! I did not mean that you should change your hydro fluid again ! I do not think that is needed nor would it do any good. You certainly used very well recognized hyd fluid and not accidentally some other fluid. The issue MIGHT relate to the hydrostatic drive but that is just one more possibility, not necessarily a likely one. Did you try running in low range when this happens? What was the effect ? Did you have an opportunity to cut heavy grass (say a foot high or so) for long enough to see if that produces the problem or not?

 

[loggin]

@ seville009

It might of been active this winter during snow plowing?, but where I live, we really didn't have much snow fall to actually use it beyond the 40 min mark. SO, I'm not sure it was something I did, or something that progressively has shown up.

My first route of thinking after having the issue (it was basically idle over winter and in my pole barn). Did a critter get into the air intake/filter etc? That was checked, okay. I then went the route of engine failure or maybe turbo failure, my dealer didn't pursue any of this. I've been pulling my hair out for the last 2 Months.

I'm now going to re-change my Hyd oil, I think!?. Maybe I'm grasping at straws at this point. But my dealer is stumped as well, so I need to try anything right now and oil I can do myself. A turbo or injector replacement, not so.

This may have been asked already and I missed it but is the tractor still under warranty?

 

[JWR]

This may have been asked already and I missed it but is the tractor still under warranty?

Yes, really !! The OP said the dealer had had it for around 4 weeks, I think, and was baffled. A baffled dealer does not end a warrantee. The Regional Service Reps are in place for those things AND they have access to backup help beyond what the dealer does. The OP needs to request /insist on the involvement of the Regional Service Rep at some point. That would be a valid thing to do even if the warrantee has run out but way more important cost-wise to get that done while still under guarantee.

 

[TopSpeed1]

Oh No ! I did not mean that you should change your hydro fluid again ! I do not think that is needed nor would it do any good. You certainly used very well recognized hyd fluid and not accidentally some other fluid. The issue MIGHT relate to the hydrostatic drive but that is just one more possibility, not necessarily a likely one. Did you try running in low range when this happens? What was the effect ? Did you have an opportunity to cut heavy grass (say a foot high or so) for long enough to see if that produces the problem or not?

Hi JWR,
No worries, I would never pin any suggestion on anyone! I just want to nix out all possibilities that I can correct myself. This is one of them, well minus the $500 bucks, but at least this is now done at/around the 250hrs and at the Agco suggested rather than my 100 hr previously done one.. I guess I will be good on this now for a long time. So not a total loss even if it doesn't fix the issue. I also still need to change the front axel, so this with my leftover Permatran should cover this as well.

I looked up from the last Hyd oil change and found my ipad notes; and already placed my Amazon order a few hours ago. The beauty with Amazon, I can return it w no problems. I'm still thinking of carrying it out however. Here is a post I just made with my notes basically to help future 1740M seekers of this process.

So yes, I did go down to turtle (slowest) mode, it certainly helps, but at that speed there really is not much of a load on the engine, so I think a 20hp tractor could pull that off w ease.