How long to let a very over grazed pasture sit?

[paulsharvey]

We are actively purchasing a new property with a 1 acre livestock enclosure, that will get expanded over time, probably into 3-1 acre paddocks. The existing is nothing but sand, with some mixed in scrub oaks, and a few pine trees. So, the way I see it, I will have an opportunity to have no livestock for a period, and try to get some grass going in there. The question really is; for others dealing with sandy soils, and grossly overgrazed pasture;

1) benign neglect; would the existing seed bed, with the existing manure and urine and scattered hay; is just plain rest the best option?

2) take the opportunity to re level, remove stumps and trash trees, and then over seed?

3) just unroll hay, and out it into service?

 

[paulsharvey]

We haven't closed or taken possession, so this is the only photo I have currently, and it's pretty representative.

Plan, when ready, gonna take 'easy mode' and pick up 2 weened steers; but that isn't a rush.

I know that 1/2/3 acres isn't gonna be enough to fully grass feed, and that's not the goal. Goal is grass, supplemented with hay and grain, to a light market weight, for personal use. Not trying to raise for profit, but also not trying to end up with $12/pound beef

 

[Rockbadchild]

This is very sandy, it is more of a barnyard then a grazing field, there is not much for seeds to grab on, the sand is so loose plus as soon as you put livestock in it, it will instantly tear it up... it take a full year for grass to fill up (become dense) with proper top soil... unless you are willing to add topsoil I think you are wasting you time.

proper seeding and fertilizer accelerate the process and suppress weeds, there is not much manure in this field, it looks like they were picking it up and having a sandy bed makes it easier, if that's the case perhaps you can scrape the sand back to the topsoil but again you are looking at a full year. How many animals and what kind you are looking at?

 

[paulsharvey]

This is very sandy, it is more of a barnyard then a grazing field, there is not much for seeds to grab on, the sand is so loose plus as soon as you put livestock in it, it will instantly tear it up... it take a full year for grass to fill up (become dense) with proper top soil... unless you are willing to add topsoil I think you are wasting you time.

proper seeding and fertilizer accelerate the process and suppress weeds, there is not much manure in this field, it looks like they were picking it up and having a sandy bed makes it easier, if that's the case perhaps you can scrape the sand back to the topsoil but again you are looking at a full year. How many animals and what kind you are looking at?

Ah, what you are looking at is what our topsoil is in this part of the state. Maybe 1/2" of gray sand, that has fine powder sediment in white sand, then down 6" it turns to a yellow-orange sand.

The best way to keep the grass is not to let it get like this; but it's too late for that.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Ah, what you are looking at is what our topsoil is in this part of the state. Maybe 1/2" of gray sand, that has fine powder sediment in white sand, then down 6" it turns to a yellow-orange sand.

The best way to keep the grass is not to let it get like this; but it's too late for that.

wow that's insanely fine and loose... grass grow on that? lol ... seeding it will be by far the fastest way to restore it... my field are silt, clay, loam and very little sand, lets say I seed early spring by late summer I have a foot tall grass but it is not dense the second year it fills up.

 

[Rockbadchild]

how many and kind of animals ? you can also separate the the field, so you let half recover while the animals are in the other half.

 

[paulsharvey]

Neighbor horse pasture, so it does grow grass. It's just once the turf mat gets torn up, the soil is very light/loose.

 

[paulsharvey]

how many and kind of animals ? you can also separate the the field, so you let half recover while the animals are in the other half.

Current plan is two steers to start, going upto possibly 4 in next 3 years; but I might hold off for a bit. The current owner has goats and a donkey on it. I kinda think they under hayed, and the animals ate everything that was even a little green.


Also bounced around the idea of doing meat sheep, a hair breed, but honestly wife doesn't much like lamb meat, and I don't want pasture pets.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Current plan is two steers to start, going upto possibly 4 in next 3 years; but I might hold off for a bit. The current owner has goats and a donkey on it. I kinda think they under hated, and the animals ate everything that was even a little green.

yeah 2 cows in 1 acres is not very big for the ground to stay healthy, they say the general rules of thump for grazing is 1 acres per head.

 

[paulsharvey]

yeah 2 cows in 1 acres is not very big for the ground to stay healthy, they say the general rules of thump for grazing is 1 acres per head.

Yeah, I will expand the area into 3 separate, 1 acre areas, or maybe a 1 acre and a 2 acre; depending on what we do. As much as people love to preach rotation, it's a lot of trouble too, but using one as a smaller containment from a larger piece does certainly have its place to isolate a new/sick/pregnant animal (not that I plan to have pregnant steers

 

[WinterDeere]

We are actively purchasing a new property with a 1 acre livestock enclosure, that will get expanded over time, probably into 3-1 acre paddocks. The existing is nothing but sand, with some mixed in scrub oaks, and a few pine trees. So, the way I see it, I will have an opportunity to have no livestock for a period, and try to get some grass going in there. The question really is; for others dealing with sandy soils, and grossly overgrazed pasture;

1) benign neglect; would the existing seed bed, with the existing manure and urine and scattered hay; is just plain rest the best option?

2) take the opportunity to re level, remove stumps and trash trees, and then over seed?

3) just unroll hay, and out it into service?

I have nearly zero experience with livestock and pastures, but I do take large-scale lawn and turf care to the level of most golf course groundskeepers, and so I know a thing or two about growing grass.

I would start with a soil test, or even two. These are cheap, usually only $15'ish at your local turf pro shop. Grab a 1 pint container (eg. large yogurt or similar), and a bulb planter. Pull some plugs, 2" - 4" deep, and shake a few crumbs of soil off each into your container. Pick out any grass or other foreign matter. Repeat this in a dozen spots around your pasture. You'll cap and shake this container to mix it all together, and get a good "average soil" sample for your pasture.

If you have two very different soil conditions (eg. a wet area and a dry area, or a shady area versus a sunny area), it can pay to do two different samples, we actually sometimes do this for the tree covered versus exposed areas of our large lawn.

When you drop off the sample, explain your goal for the area, and the soil analysis folks will work up a fertilizer and pH correction plan to meet your goal. Fertilizer is not cheap, and even more importantly, it wastes your time applying it if it's the wrong mix. The soil analysis will ensure you're spending your time and money on the right product for your goals, versus wasting both. I can help you with adjusting your fertilization plan to meet their targets, which are usually just an annual total target.

We collect a soil sample every year in mid February, so we are ready to start with our fertilization plan in March. I spend a good bit of time and money on fertilizer and seed, and want to be sure I'm not wasting any of it. If nothing else, you want to be sure your pH is corrected, as all the fertilizer and seed in the world will be wasted, if pH is not correct. And pH is about the cheapest thing in the world to correct, versus the cost of seed and fertilizer.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Send a soil sample as well, you will know what it needs and how much fertilizer you need, healthier your soil faster it will grow, also from that it will give you the seeds to soil combability, seeding will also give you the opportunity to seed plants like trefoil and white clover which put nitrate in your soil and keep your soil fertilize longer. (I am not sure if these plants grow in your area but its a example)

 

[paulsharvey]

I am assuming it is pretty dang acidic, with the pines and scrub oaks.

 

[paulsharvey]

Is there any value, if taking the rest approach (and then amending soil), to planting something like a buckwheat cover?

 

[WinterDeere]

I am assuming it is pretty dang acidic, with the pines and scrub oaks.

Probably not a bad assumption. But again, soil test is too cheap and easy to go on assumptions... get it tested.

You should be able to find a local pro turf supplier, the folks that supply all of your local golf courses and turf farms. If not, just call a turf farm or local golf course, and find out who they use for their turf supplies. These are the guys who are connected with soil analysis labs, and can facilitate the test. After you get the results back, they'll also be your cheapest source for lime (calcitic or dolomitic), fertilizer, and seed.

Don't even bother with the Scotts / Lowes Depot crap, the pro-grade products are mixed to higher concentrations, enabling easier and faster application for those able to control their application rates.

 

[WinterDeere]

Is there any value, if taking the rest approach (and then amending soil), to planting something like a buckwheat cover?

Not my area of expertise. But as my interest is a pretty lawn, I'd not be one to let anything sit and weed out for a few years.

My experience is that our local soil always trends more and more acidic. I'm not sure the cause of that (acid rain? acidic runoff from adjacent properties?) but I see the result in our yearly testing. So, if I were to let something here sit and rest, I suspect it would only get more acidic, in that time.

I've had to do an application of lime, something like 1000 lb./acre, at least once every 3-4 years. Thankfully, lime is very inexpensive. As stated previously, pH must be in a good range first, before even wasting a penny on fertilizer and/or seed. Yield of both is highly dependent on having your pH in a good range.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Is there any value, if taking the rest approach (and then amending soil), to planting something like a buckwheat cover?

There is value as far as it is a quick growing crop and it will suppress weeds, it will also add organic matter to the soil but you will be spending money for little benefit in my opinion, to me it all depends on how much weeds your area is suspectable to have, if its going to be infested with weeds then yes if not probably not. Oats is also a option with the same result ... Fertilizer is expensive but seeds are a lot more expensive, but I don't know how much buckwheat or Oats goes for.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Not my area of expertise. But as my interest is a pretty lawn, I'd not be one to let anything sit and weed out for a few years.

My experience is that our local soil always trends more and more acidic. I'm not sure the cause of that (acid rain? acidic runoff from adjacent properties?) but I see the result in our yearly testing. So, if I were to let something here sit and rest, I suspect it would only get more acidic, in that time.

I've had to do an application of lime, something like 1000 lb./acre, at least once every 3-4 years. Thankfully, lime is very inexpensive. As stated previously, pH must be in a good range first, before even wasting a penny on fertilizer and/or seed. Yield of both is highly dependent on having your pH in a good range.

there are many reasons, heavy rainfall which washes away basic nutrients like calcium and magnesium, acidic rain, soil type like granite is acidic, decomposition of organic matter releases organic acids, then certain human activities like continuous harvested crops, it can deplete basic nutrients and contribute to soil acidification over time. ... When I tested my field my soil PH was bang on so it depends

 

[WinterDeere]

One thing I've learned, in my quite-substantial reading on the subject, is the "plant something" mentality. Yes, nutrients and soil wash away in rain, and much faster so, if there's nothing planted in it. Even when trying to grow a pretty lawn, the rule is to always get *something* growing in it, ASAP.

Your yield and coverage will be terrible, until you get pH and nutrients closer to target, so the initial goal is usually just getting something really cheap down, that will provide some temporary structure. Around here, that usually means throwing down a mix of annual and perennial rye, which is cheap and grows fast. Then get pH and nutrients closer to target, then plant your final crop (eg. Tall Fescue for our region) in September.

Your seasons are delayed so far south, and your warm-grass turf species behave so differently than our cool-grass species, that you should really consult someone local about the timing. The advice I give is great for the north-Atlantic region, but maybe not so much for Florida.

BTW... I Googled for turf supply in your area, and didn't turn up anyone obvious. I use Synatek Solutions, I'm friendly with the owner, but they don't have a Florida office. In any case, you'd be looking for someone like them, for your testing and supplies: Locations - SynaTek Solutions

 

[Rockbadchild]

One thing I've learned, in my quite-substantial reading on the subject, is the "plant something" mentality. Yes, nutrients and soil wash away in rain, and much faster so, if there's nothing planted in it. Even when trying to grow a pretty lawn, the rule is to always get *something* growing in it, ASAP.

Your yield and coverage will be terrible, until you get pH and nutrients closer to target, so the initial goal is usually just getting something really cheap down, that will provide some temporary structure. Around here, that usually means throwing down a mix of annual and perennial rye, which is cheap and grows fast. Then get pH and nutrients closer to target, then plant your final crop (eg. Tall Fescue for our region) in September.

Your seasons are delayed so far south, and your warm-grass turf species behave so differently than our cool-grass species, that you should really consult someone local about the timing. The advice I give is great for the north-Atlantic region, but maybe not so much for Florida.

BTW... I Googled for turf supply in your area, and didn't turn up anyone obvious. I use Synatek Solutions, I'm friendly with the owner, but they don't have a Florida office. In any case, you'd be looking for someone like them, for your testing and supplies: Locations - SynaTek Solutions

I agree with this reasoning espicially for the soil in question.