How best to dam a creek?????

[Hay Dude]

Might have to do a bog turtles study. Probably only take a year.

 

[garry1p]

1st look up building a core ditch for a pond dam.
Many years ago I paid some one to build a core ditch, he built the core ditch but did not do it correctly and it soon leaked slowly.
Within a year I had fast leaking dam and no pond once it started leaking it was only a matter of time before the center of the dam completely washed away.

 

[jyoutz]

1st look up building a core ditch for a pond dam.
Many years ago I paid some one to build a core ditch, he built the core ditch but did not do it correctly and it soon leaked slowly.
Within a year I had fast leaking dam and no pond once it started leaking it was only a matter of time before the center of the dam completely washed away.

The key thing is people design these small pond dams for the normal flow of the small stream. Stormflow and snow melt are what normally take out those small pond dams. Beavers do it better

 

[Hay Dude]

Get the gubmit involved and maybe you’ll live to see your dam/pond built, but I kinda doubt it.

 

[jyoutz]

N

Get the gubmit involved and maybe you’ll live to see your dam/pond built, but I kinda doubt it.

NRCS has actual professional hydrologists who know how to calculate and design for normal and extreme storm flow. But we know that you don’t respect professionally educated people so your comment is expected and not helpful.

 

[Hay Dude]

N

NRCS has actual professional hydrologists who know how to calculate and design for normal and extreme storm flow. But we know that you don’t respect professionally educated people so your comment is expected and not helpful.

The taxpayer funded salaries & pensions of those unnecessary positions provide them with enough paid vacation time that the poor applicant for a gubmit study might die of old age before he gets an answer, after he submits his payment, up front of course.
Better off to avoid the gubmit at all cost. Last thing you want is those jackoffs tromping around on your property…..
“we are from the gubmit, we are here to help”

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

The taxpayer funded salaries & pensions of those unnecessary positions provide them with enough paid vacation time that the poor applicant for a gubmit study might die of old age before he gets an answer, after he submits his payment, up front of course.
Better off to avoid the gubmit at all cost. Last thing you want is those jackoffs tromping around on your property…..
“we are from the gubmit, we are here to help”

^^^100%^^^
What my farmer neighbors/friends say. A new Dentist neighbor got "free" 2 wells drilled and
High Tensile fence on their place for horses. Free-government provided. Now it's the government's farm.

 

[MMC]

I respect the opinions and experiences of those on this site. That's why I enjoy (mostly reading) these posts.

I will agree that we are over regulated and that's another discussion. But the Federal Ag folks in my county have always been most helpful to me over the decades. The NCRS (sorry, I'm older so I used the SCS name) has always sent expert folks to help with springs and ponds (design, that is). And...the resultant water from those designs are running after years of use.

No one says you have to use their help, but as a taxpayer, their services belong to you. Why not use them? No charges I know about. If you don't like the answers provided, then do it like you want...

 

[jyoutz]

^^^100%^^^
What my farmer neighbors/friends say. A new Dentist neighbor got "free" 2 wells drilled and
High Tensile fence on their place for horses. Free-government provided. Now it's the government's farm.

NRCS isn’t a regulatory agency. They implement USDA’s landowner assistance programs. They have no enforcement authority and don’t work with state agencies that do. Yes they do work with the Farm Services Agency to give away a lot of free money to rural landowners for farm and ranch improvements and land conservation. I’m sure that we have members of this forum who are beneficiaries. I am one. I received funds 15 years ago for grassland improvement projects. All of these programs are part of the USDA Farm bill that is periodically reauthorized by Congress. It’s one of the few things that Congress does that always receives bipartisan support.

By the way you have a beautiful property and a nice spring fed stream. In my part of the country that small pond (once constructed) would be stocked with trout.

Edit: MMC - we must have posted at the same time, saying the same things in different ways.

 

[MMC]

NRCS isn’t a regulatory agency. They implement USDA’s landowner assistance programs. They have no enforcement authority and don’t work with state agencies that do. Yes they do work with the Farm Services Agency to give away a lot of free money to rural landowners for farm and ranch improvements and land conservation. I’m sure that we have members of this forum who are beneficiaries. I am one. I received funds 15 years ago for grassland improvement projects. All of these programs are part of the USDA Farm bill that is periodically reauthorized by Congress. It’s one of the few things that Congress does that always receives bipartisan support.

By the way you have a beautiful property and a nice spring fed stream. In my part of the country that small pond (once constructed) would be stocked with trout.

Edit: MMC - we must have posted at the same time, saying the same things in different ways.

We did - you said it better, though. And though there are many legitimate criticisms of government, many forget that agricultural programs serve the national interest first.

 

[jyoutz]

We did - you said it better, though. And though there are many legitimate criticisms of government, many forget that agricultural programs serve the national interest first.

I forgot to mention what you stated. It’s not always about receiving cost/share funding. Most of the work that NRCS does is to provide technical assistance and help landowners develop project or management plans.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

All I know is the experiences of one's in my area where the creek is fenced off both sides, certain plants planted so God forbid livestock manure can't get washed into it, then agents have access to the property any time they wish.
No thanks.
I pay property, local, state, federal taxes and have never received any government assistance nor want it. Telling me when, what, where I can do things on my property...no thanks.
I want less not more interference in my life. I'd be curious what happens one day when the land is sold...can the new owners remove government installed fence, replant what they want? I bet once there it's there for good.

 

[jyoutz]

All I know is the experiences of one's in my area where the creek is fenced off both sides, certain plants planted so God forbid livestock manure can't get washed into it, then agents have access to the property any time they wish.
No thanks.
I pay property, local, state, federal taxes and have never received any government assistance nor want it. Telling me when, what, where I can do things on my property...no thanks.
I want less not more interference in my life. I'd be curious what happens one day when the land is sold...can the new owners remove government installed fence, replant what they want? I bet once there it's there for good.

NRCS doesn’t have agents and they don’t come to your property without you calling and asking them to come. They are a technical service arm of USDA and have technical specialists. Most large farms and ranches are familiar and use them for technical assistance to provide project plans and recommendations. They don’t tell anyone what to do; they listen to what you want and provide ideas. But you can always guess about the hydrology or maybe pay a consulting hydrologist instead of using their free advice. Your choice.

 

[ultrarunner]

Friend bought a property and found what he thought was a dam…

He spent a lot of effort removing silt and found concrete with 1939 embossed.

Bought a little pump and all summer irrigated his place.

Winter came and the pond silted over.

A few years later he ran into the grandson of the original owner who said every Spring his dad would spend a lot of time dealing with the silt and decided not worth it.

 

[dougtrr2]

Looks like you have received some productive inputs to your initial question. I tend to overthink things, but the statement you made earlier:
"Seriously the creek gets dammed by nature after a heavy rain, I clean it out...it's just not in the right spot."

Do you think that is going to be an issue? Will your swimming hole get filled up with debris, and then how will you clean that out.

Doug in SW IA

 

[Hay Dude]

I respect the opinions and experiences of those on this site. That's why I enjoy (mostly reading) these posts.

I will agree that we are over regulated and that's another discussion. But the Federal Ag folks in my county have always been most helpful to me over the decades. The NCRS (sorry, I'm older so I used the SCS name) has always sent expert folks to help with springs and ponds (design, that is). And...the resultant water from those designs are running after years of use.

No one says you have to use their help, but as a taxpayer, their services belong to you. Why not use them? No charges I know about. If you don't like the answers provided, then do it like you want...

Why not use them? Because they can open you up to months or even years of permits, expenses and hassles.
Property “rights” in this country are at a bare minimum because of oppressive, large inefficient gubmit.

 

[Runner]

I know you said it has a rock bottom. It also sounds like there is a fairly large amount of storm water flow at times, which would seem to be a difficult situation to try to handle with a dam. Sounds like what you really want is more of a swimming hole than an actual pond.

Is there a location where you don't have rocks adjacent to the stream where you could just widen/deepen the channel or dig a parallel channel so as to create something like an "oxbow lake"? Something like this might eliminate the problems and pitfalls associated with building an actual dam, while still allowing you to have some deeper water to fish, swim, etc.

I have a similar situation where I would love to dam up a drainage way to make a pond, but due to the extreme amount of storm flow, I know there is no way I could build a dam to handle it.

 

[Jstpssng]

Rather than dam it, just dig it deeper. Don't get the government involved. We don't need no stinking laws. To hell with anybody downstream, they shouldn't have built there.

 

[deezler]

Interesting diversity of thoughts in this thread so far.

I have a small creek through my woods that usually only runs a few inches deep, but can surge up to a few feet deep during extreme rain events or melt-off of a big snowpack. I also would like to dam it to create a pond/swimming hole in it, with a stone waterfall exit for nice views and water sounds (would build it just upstream of my bridge, so I have a nice view point, etc).

My thought so far was to build it out of cemented boulders. First I would divert the stream (during a very low flow period) into a narrow channel of treated plywood or similar right at one far side of the creekbed. Build up the majority of the dam to finished height, then pull the wooden channel out, and start stuffing the remaining narrow gap at the creek edge with stone and mortar. Probably need to have wooden supports ready to support this vulnerable edge part of the dam. If the creek flow is low enough, it would fill the new pond very gently and eventually reach the dam spillway for normal conditions thereafter. Would it just silt up over time? Or the creek just find a new pathway around the far side of my dam? yeah probably.

 

[pmsmechanic]

If you diverted part of the stream flow through a pipe into a separate pond that you make then you wouldn't have to be concerned about high water flows taking out your dam.