How long to let a very over grazed pasture sit?

[WinterDeere]

OP, 1 thing that has not been mentioned is that sand does NOT hold or capture nutrients very well. So DON'T apply large amounts of fertiliser in a single application. Most of the fert will drop below the root zone before the plants can get it. Instead use split application, ie twice /year.

In our region, we typically split our fertilizer plan into 5-6 applications per year. This also allows us to use combination products, to satisfy the application of two products at the same time:

March: Pre-emergent (weed blocker) + fertilizer
May: Post-emergent weed killer (best sprayed) + fertilizer
June: Grub control + fertilizer
August: Weed spray / prep for overseeding
September: aeration, overseed + starter fertilizer, or another fertilizer round if not overseeding
November: winter feed fertilizer

When looking at your soil report, you want your numbers to add up to the totals in their seasonal recommendation, doing the /1000sf math.

 

[paulsharvey]

Yes, 100%, that is the biggest problem; low organics, so although we might get 55 in of rain per year, the soils there *and current place) don't hold any moisture; and dont hold much nutrients.

 

[WinterDeere]

Yes, 100%, that is the biggest problem; low organics, so although we might get 55 in of rain per year, the soils there *and current place) don't hold any moisture; and dont hold much nutrients.

The "get something/anything growing now" theory is all about this. The ability of any soil to hold nutrients and resist erosion, goes way up as soon as there's something rooted in it, even if that something isn't your final/planned crop.

As already noted, up here we'd be planting a cheap annual rye mix now, just to give some structure now. Some annual rye cultivars can germinate in just 2 - 4 days. We'd wait until September to put down our more expensive tall fescue, with enough time for it to germinate (up to 6 weeks!) before soil temperatures really drop hard in October. Planting tall fescue in the heat and draught that is our July would mean too much seed loss, but your warm grasses may behave differently, and I suspect you get a LOT more summer rain than we see up here.

 

[jeff9366]

This question concerns techniques for dealing with sandy soils and grossly overgrazed pasture.

Hooved animals compact soil, even sandy soil, very hard. Leaving the paddocks fallow would require years and years for nature to restore tilth. Rake/aerate your vacant paddocks with an All Purpose Plow mounted on the tractor Three Point Hitch.

Your Kioti CK2610 HST can pull a three tine or four tine APP, depending on soil moisture and root size.

1) benign neglect; would the existing seed bed, with the existing manure and urine and scattered hay; is just plain rest the best option?

Why be lazy when your total surface is three acres? If you are going to do it, DO IT RIGHT.

Inland Florida farmland is typically very low in nitrogen, OK on potash, which is mined around Palatka, Florida and low in Phosphorus. In addition pH is usually 7+, which is on the high side, so you will never need lime. Go to IFAS for a soil test. I fertilize with 24-0-11. Most pasture grass in Florida is some form of Bahia. The highly productive Bahia cultivars require fertilizer and water. The unimproved varieties do not but are 50% less productive than the best cultivars properly tended.

Bahia, a tropical grass, often puts down roots 9".

Compost everything possible and rake finished compost into the soil with APP.

2) take the opportunity to re level, remove stumps and trash trees, PLOW and then over seed?
YES.

3) just unroll hay, and out it into service?

Why be lazy when your total surface is three acres? If you are going to do it, DO IT RIGHT.

NOTE THAT WE BOTH RESIDE IN ALACHUA COUNTY, FLORIDA.

More:

Dirt Dog - All Purpose Plow / Field Cultivator REVIEW + PICTURES

Dirt Dog All Purpose Plow / Field Cultivator Dirt Dog Model APP 66-5 Total Width 66", Working Width 62", Five Tines, Weight 284 Pounds, Paid $835.00 (2010) Field Cultivator: A Three Point Hitch mounted, secondary tillage implement, used to perform operations such as soil aeration...

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[cmyoung2]

I have nearly zero experience with livestock and pastures, but I do take large-scale lawn and turf care to the level of most golf course groundskeepers, and so I know a thing or two about growing grass.

I would start with a soil test, or even two. These are cheap, usually only $15'ish at your local turf pro shop. Grab a 1 pint container (eg. large yogurt or similar), and a bulb planter. Pull some plugs, 2" - 4" deep, and shake a few crumbs of soil off each into your container. Pick out any grass or other foreign matter. Repeat this in a dozen spots around your pasture. You'll cap and shake this container to mix it all together, and get a good "average soil" sample for your pasture.

If you have two very different soil conditions (eg. a wet area and a dry area, or a shady area versus a sunny area), it can pay to do two different samples, we actually sometimes do this for the tree covered versus exposed areas of our large lawn.

When you drop off the sample, explain your goal for the area, and the soil analysis folks will work up a fertilizer and pH correction plan to meet your goal. Fertilizer is not cheap, and even more importantly, it wastes your time applying it if it's the wrong mix. The soil analysis will ensure you're spending your time and money on the right product for your goals, versus wasting both. I can help you with adjusting your fertilization plan to meet their targets, which are usually just an annual total target.

We collect a soil sample every year in mid February, so we are ready to start with our fertilization plan in March. I spend a good bit of time and money on fertilizer and seed, and want to be sure I'm not wasting any of it. If nothing else, you want to be sure your pH is corrected, as all the fertilizer and seed in the world will be wasted, if pH is not correct. And pH is about the cheapest thing in the world to correct, versus the cost of seed and fertilizer.

As a retired ag extension agent, first soil test-everything-, when you have the results back call your agent and discuss your possible future plans. They can help with the type of forage that will best work in your area and give you a better idea about stocking rates. Where I am in the NC mountains 1000 lbs of livestock /acre may be high, and we have a lot of grass. And our grass would not stand a chance in FL. But this would be a good time to clean up and level up.

 

[paulsharvey]

This question concerns techniques for dealing with sandy soils and grossly overgrazed pasture.

Hooved animals compact soil, even sandy soil, very hard. Leaving the paddocks fallow would require years and years for nature to restore tilth. Rake/aerate your vacant paddocks with an All Purpose Plow mounted on the tractor Three Point Hitch.

Your Kioti CK2610 HST can pull a three tine or four tine APP, depending on soil moisture and root size.

1) benign neglect; would the existing seed bed, with the existing manure and urine and scattered hay; is just plain rest the best option?

Why be lazy when your total surface is three acres? If you are going to do it, DO IT RIGHT.

Inland Florida farmland is typically very low in nitrogen, OK on potash, which is mined in Florida and low in Phosphorus. In addition pH is usually 7+, which is on the high side, so you will never need lime. Go to IFAS for a soil test. I fertilize with 24-0-11. Most pasture grass in Florida is some form of Bahia. The highly productive Bahia cultivars require fertilizer and water. The unimproved varieties do not but are 50% less productive than the best cultivars properly tended.

Compost everything possible and rake finished compost into the soil with APP.

2) take the opportunity to re level, remove stumps and trash trees, PLOW and then over seed?
YES.

3) just unroll hay, and out it into service?

Why be lazy when your total surface is three acres? If you are going to do it, DO IT RIGHT.

NOTE THAT WE BOTH RESIDE IN ALACHUA COUNTY, FLORIDA.

More:

Dirt Dog - All Purpose Plow / Field Cultivator REVIEW + PICTURES

Dirt Dog All Purpose Plow / Field Cultivator Dirt Dog Model APP 66-5 Total Width 66", Working Width 62", Five Tines, Weight 284 Pounds, Paid $835.00 (2010) Field Cultivator: A Three Point Hitch mounted, secondary tillage implement, used to perform operations such as soil aeration...

www.tractorbynet.com

I'm actually not in the Alachua County side, I'm next one east, but point taken, and I do appreciate it. There is a lot of stuff online about overgrazed fields, but not much on this level of stress or this type of soil.

Once things close and we get stuff moved over there, I will definitely get a couple samples sent in.

So, since we are talking about soil samples; if I am going to clear out an additional 2-3 acres of woods (pretty thick stuff, but few large trees, and I would leave the live oaks and any hickories) is there any point in sampling that prior to having clean field, or do you want to get the woods dealt with before sampling.

 

[WinterDeere]

You want the sampling to reflect what you're trying to plant in, and it's just a snapshot in time. Most doing lawn care have it done at least once per year, to track how the fertilizers and amendments you're putting down have changed the soil over the last year.

Usually, year 1 fertilizer requirements are big adjustments, getting seriously out-of-whack soil inline. Subsequent years should require much smaller adjustments, assuming you're following the recommendations.

With that in mind, I would be sampling only after clearing, when you're ready to plant whatever you'll be planting. It usually takes 1 - 3 weeks to get a report back, when dropping a sample off at a local turf company, the state school extension may be a little different.

 

[jeff9366]

I am assuming it is pretty dang acidic, with the pines and scrub oaks.

Highly unlikely in north-central Florida.
Most soil in north-central Florida is moderately alkaline. PH of 7 or above.

Florida pines have adapted to high pH soil.

 

[aesanders]

I am in your neck of the woods, and I’d say you have the option of planting Bahia now, or working on thinning the pines there now. If you wait much longer in the year, it start becomin* a little late to plant Bahia.

If it were me, I’d start thinning the pines now and send in a soil sample, with the timeframe of getting something planted maybe winter like rye grass or winter oats, and then Bahia next year.

 

[paulsharvey]

I am in your neck of the woods, and I’d say you have the option of planting Bahia now, or working on thinning the pines there now. If you wait much longer in the year, it start becomin* a little late to plant Bahia.

If it were me, I’d start thinning the pines now and send in a soil sample, with the timeframe of getting something planted maybe winter like rye grass or winter oats, and then Bahia next year.

It's going to be late Aug before we can take possession, and several weeks after that to get moved, then we are gonna focus on getting our existing place ready to list, with the goal of having it on the market by October (realistically mid-late October probably). So, it's probably gonna be a cold weather seed to start with.