Water softeners - do it yourself systems

Pixguy · Sep 5, 2024

We're building a new home and just priced a salt water softener. WOW, have prices jumped in 5 years around here. Sure, the two systems I had installed previously were before COVID but I feel they're just using that as an excuse to gouge us.
The other two salt systems to eliminate iron and hard water were about $2400 and the same system quoted today was double that. The systems at the box stores are about $650 and get fairly good reviews. I've done crimp on pex and I'd rather do the expansion way like the way the plumber did the rest of the house but I can't see buying ing a $500+ expansion tool set to use for this.

Professionals? Have you installed your own? Recommendations?

mikester · Sep 6, 2024

My softener is nearing its end of useful life and will need to be replaced soon and I've been experiencing the same sticker shock.

The last time I installed the system I plumbed in bypass ball valves and used hot water flex lines for the final connection due to the fact that the new system reversed the hard and soft water lines. Installing the new system will be easy now.

What worries me about the big box store units is reading a lot of reviews about brands migrating to cheap chinesium plastic parts in their race to the bottom that catastrophically fail and flooded basements.

I'm thinking of getting a commercial softener at my HVAC supplier next time with a better warranty. They are more expensive than the big box store units but half to a third of the price of getting something from the Culligan Man. My preference is to go with something manufactured in N.A.

hube2 · Sep 6, 2024

I just had my water softener replaced and the guy I called charged me $1400. If you were quoted $4800 that seems just a tad unreasonable to me. I don't know what the rates are there, or what the cost of the quoted equipment is there, but around here, reasonable is 2 to 3 times the cost of the materials for the labor.

It's not something I could not have done myself, but I'm getting too old for that sh*t.

I would ask them what brand of softener they are installing, how big, and the brand, type of control unit they are installing then see what these would cost and decided from there if I thought the quoted price was reasonable or not. Then maybe get a couple other prices.

Pixguy · Sep 6, 2024

hube2 said:
I just had my water softener replaced and the guy I called charged me $1400. If you were quoted $4800 that seems just a tad unreasonable to me. I don't know what the rates are there, or what the cost of the quoted equipment is there, but around here, reasonable is 2 to 3 times the cost of the materials for the labor.

It's not something I could not have done myself, but I'm getting too old for that sh*t.

I would ask them what brand of softener they are installing, how big, and the brand, type of control unit they are installing then see what these would cost and decided from there if I thought the quoted price was reasonable or not. Then maybe get a couple other prices.

I am getting another quote but I'm anticipating it being similar and why I'm wanting to install a system myself. I've done pex work before with either crimping or using Shark connectors.

Here's what the system quoted would be.
48,000 gallons

hube2 · Sep 7, 2024

Pixguy said:
I am getting another quote but I'm anticipating it being similar and why I'm wanting to install a system myself. I've done pex work before with either crimping or using Shark connectors.

Here's what the system quoted would be.
48,000 gallons
View attachment 1036496

I just looked back at the bill and I was wrong, it was $1900 + $100 to dispose of the old equipment, not the $1400 I originally posted, but still nowhere near your $4800 which is still more than double what I paid.

The equipment is basically the same as what I have. A standard 1.5 cubic foot softener. The control valve is a bit different and it is stamped with a different "brand" but it's probably manufactured by the same company (Clack). Here is what the guy that installed mine said, he liked to talk. These things are only manufactured by a couple of companies and they stamp them with different brand names and then they are sold by those companies. Any difference in price of equipment is all based on the markup of the company selling them. There is a 90% chance that it is exactly the same as mine.

The only extra this shows that I don't have is the condensation jacket. Condensation is not something I need to worry about because run a dehumidifier in the basement.

The guy used Pex and I watched him doing it. I've never used Pex myself, but it looked extremely easy to do. My main concern with doing it myself was not the plumbing. It was getting the new equipment into the house and the old equipment out and disposed of without anyone to help me. Like I said, I'm getting older and I can't do that kind of thing myself any longer. The guy charged me an extra $100 to dispose of the old equipment.

MotorSeven · Dec 8, 2024

I just got a quote for a softener system, UV light and a 5 filter drinking water set up.....all installed...over $11K

Yeah, that's not happening. But I need to do something as my hard water is now attacking faucets & reducing pressure due to clogs. The odd thing is, from day one we had sulphur water and the company that tested the water yesterday said.....no sulphur present

RayIN · Dec 8, 2024

MotorSeven said:
I just got a quote for a softener system, UV light and a 5 filter drinking water set up.....all installed...over $11K

Yeah, that's not happening. But I need to do something as my hard water is now attacking faucets & reducing pressure due to clogs. The odd thing is, from day one we had sulphur water and the company that tested the water yesterday said.....no sulphur present

IMO, test results reflect to what the salesman is selling.
Send a sample to your state testing facility.

MotorSeven · Dec 8, 2024

RayIN said:
IMO, test results reflect to what the salesman is selling.
Send a sample to your state testing facility.

I agree with ya, but I already know we have really hard water, so I think I am going to research water softeners and install one myself.

rumwrks · Dec 8, 2024

At a house I owned a couple decades ago when we bought it came with a Culligan contract that played out to month-month after about 6 months. The softener we were "renting" was by that point over 10yrs old and "crusty" in all senses of the term, and you had to buy their salt as well. I figured they might give me a deal on a replacement because we were already paying monthly "rental", no such thing. They wanted more than 4x the price of a comparable softener I could buy at a local plumbing parts store (plus they'd still have charged me the same usurious monthly service fee.. Culligan is a scam).

So a couple things I found out. They're all plastic so once you drain them (and get the salt out) they're pretty light to haul in and out (but figure out some way to drain the old one and get the salt out of it because otherwise it's really to heavy to move easily safely). I still hate plumbing but not as much as I hate vastly over paying for things. Overall it was pretty easy once I got into it (assuming you can follow directions somewhat). Our salt usage dropped dramatically, we went from a bag a week to less than a bag a month which paid for itself in hassle factor if not in absolute dollar terms (although that was also nice).

If I wasn't going to DIY it I'd hire someone who was "just" a plumber and not one of the rip off "water softener" companies. I'm still.. uh.. salty.. about how much they were charging me for that setup.

LOML had a consumer reports subscription at the time and we used that for softener ratings and bought the one they recommended. We sold the house 2yrs later so I don't know how it played out long term but I was plumb (heh) happy with myself for having done it myself

MattB4 · Dec 8, 2024

Take a look at: Budget Water Filters-Water Softeners-Iron Filters-Well Water Treatment Been several years since I dealt with them but they were helpful for the self-installer back then.

rangerfredbob · Dec 8, 2024

Just saw this... a couple years ago when my well pump went (impeller worn out from sand) out I went ahead and changed out my water softener setup (since the sand also took out the seals on the purge valve so it leaked constantly). Previously I had a two tank system installed by the company that did the well and I couldn't find anything similar in DIY so I went with the $650 setup from Home Depot, it's worked just fine, water quality same as two tank system as far as I can tell... Mine was all done with PVC before so we just redid that as it's simple enough, it's all in the pump house so out of sight...

RayIN · Dec 8, 2024

MattB4 said:
Take a look at: Budget Water Filters-Water Softeners-Iron Filters-Well Water Treatment Been several years since I dealt with them but they were helpful for the self-installer back then.

I found this statement on the website amazing.
quote:"

"Don't drink the water from ANY softener:

You should not drink the water from ANY water softener as a rule, and should be wary of any sales people who say you can."

buckeyefarmer · Dec 8, 2024

Pixguy said:
We're building a new home and just priced a salt water softener. WOW, have prices jumped in 5 years around here. Sure, the two systems I had installed previously were before COVID but I feel they're just using that as an excuse to gouge us.
The other two salt systems to eliminate iron and hard water were about $2400 and the same system quoted today was double that. The systems at the box stores are about $650 and get fairly good reviews. I've done crimp on pex and I'd rather do the expansion way like the way the plumber did the rest of the house but I can't see buying ing a $500+ expansion tool set to use for this.

Professionals? Have you installed your own? Recommendations?

Installed mine. Original was Sears Kenmore, installed in 1997. This year it developed a leak in the resin tank, so replaced with a Whirlpool (under $700)(Which made the kenmore) and it was a direct fit to the existing bypass valve. If you can do any kind of plumbing, copper or pex, they are simple to install.

rumwrks · Dec 9, 2024

rangerfredbob said:
the sand also took out the seals on the purge valve so it leaked constantly

If you haven't already, it might be worth installing a sand filter between the well and the house. It won't save your pump of course but it can cut back on the damage to the rest of the system a bit at the cost of emptying a filter every so often.

MattB4 · Dec 9, 2024

RayIN said:
I found this statement on the website amazing.
quote:"

"Don't drink the water from ANY softener:
You should not drink the water from ANY water softener as a rule, and should be wary of any sales people who say you can."

Yes there is concern about health risks of water softener salts in water. That is why you use Reverse Osmosis for your drinking water after a softener. Personally I think it is overdone but people get real funny about how pure of water they drink.

bdhsfz6 · Dec 9, 2024

Do you really need "soft" water for the whole house? If it causes staining on plumbing fixtures or clothing after washing, pipe damage, etc., you probably do.

In our case, we were able to tolerate the minor effects of our hard water for most usage. For drinking & food prep, we installed a reverse osmosis under sink system. Cost $600 and I installed it myself in an afternoon.

Yes, the filters are expensive, probably more than softener salt, but we are still on our first set 6 months after installation. Mfgr. says they are good for a year with our projected use.

MotorSeven · Dec 9, 2024

bdhsfz6 said:
Do you really need "soft" water for the whole house? If it causes staining on plumbing fixtures or clothing after washing, pipe damage, etc., you probably do.

In our case, we were able to tolerate the minor effects of our hard water for most usage. For drinking & food prep, we installed a reverse osmosis under sink system. Cost $600 and I installed it myself in an afternoon.

Yes, the filters are expensive, probably more than softener salt, but we are still on our first set 6 months after installation. Mfgr. says they are good for a year with our projected use.

We have been in the house 12 ish years and are going to have to replace the Moen kitchen faucet for the third time.....the metal is corroding making a mess. These faucets are around $250ea, so this will be 7-800$ "down the drain".

I cleaned out the shower diverter a month ago, the valve bodies were clogged. It's now back to a trickle, so I will disassemble it again today. I ordered a Lab water test kit this am, have to wait for it to get there, then fill and send it back. I wanted an independent lab to tell me exactly what is going on with my water before I buy anything. I think the water guy here on Sat said my hardness was a 15, but not sure what scale they are using. I am also going to pick up a DIY test kit from HD and see what it says.

This is what I think I need at this point:
A salt water softener, one that back flushes based on gallons used, not time.
A reverse Osmosis system....3-5 filter, for drinking water.
A UV light.
A sediment filter/Spin filter 50micron Spin filter

Looking at prices, this all should come in around $3500 for top tier stuff.

MossRoad · Dec 9, 2024

Our first water softener came with the house. It was installed directly after the expansion tank. ALL water in the house is softened. I bypassed the softener for drinking water and the outside faucets.

When it finally died, I bought a Morton softener for less than $500. It works fine.

Water softeners are very easy to install. Just cut the line, install two elbows, run some flex to the softener and use shark bite connectors, plug it in and you're good to go.

rangerfredbob · Dec 9, 2024

rumwrks said:
If you haven't already, it might be worth installing a sand filter between the well and the house. It won't save your pump of course but it can cut back on the damage to the rest of the system a bit at the cost of emptying a filter every so often.

My setup is pretty complex... was new when I moved in in '14 so I got almost 10 years out of the pump... it goes from the pump to a flow restrictor to a centrifugal sand separator with a timed drain valve (that is also sand damaged) to the pressure tank to a long sock type filter to a cartridge filter then to the softener then to another cartridge filter (another came with the new softener... wasn't going to not use it) then to the house... There's WAY less sand and silt than there was when I moved in, about once a year in the fall things will settle when it starts raining again and I'll go through a month where the filters will get plugged quicker but for the most part it's stable now...

jyoutz · Dec 9, 2024

Our well water isn’t exceptionally hard, so I installed this kit. It’s relatively easy to do with pvc pipe and valves. I chose a sediment filter, softening filter using citrus instead of salt, and a carbon filter. The trio lasts about a year between changes and cost about $275 for all three replacement filters. If your water is really hard, this might not do the trick , but it works for me.