Looking at a hydraulic offset flail for the 3038e -It's Home!

[nikdfish]

It is a lighter duty version, specs say 2600lb + for the tractor. Weight is listed as 663 lb..

The 3038e has the 305 FEL & loaded rear R4's so total tractor weight is ballpark 3800lb (without adding operator weight ). The rear wheels are set in the wide configuration.

I do plan to be cautious in movement & usage.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Yep, that's why I went with the JD mechanical scv kit rather than a solenoid based solution. Still may end up adding restrictors on the flail cylinders.

I have a 72" Maschio girafetta on my L6060 and I found from experience that flow restrictors are a MUST!

Also, use a light feathering action on the tilt valve. A jerking action with that much outboard weight, can easily cause a tip over.

 

[leonz]

I will add to what bdhsfz6 has wisely said; you need metering valves on all three circuits meaning that you must install one metering valve on both cylinder ports as there will not be enough room to mount them on the hose ends

As the common restrictor valve will have no restrictor on the return oil circuit and as a result you will have full oil flow and that is a big no, no.

I know that is more money but you have to have 8 of them UNLESS there are individual metering valves supplied with the mower cylinders-you have to remember that if only circuits one oil flow is controlled the return oil flow will be wide open and that must be avoided as there is no feathering action on these mules.

If each metering valve is set at 2 gallons per minute including both the ends of the top and tilt cylinder you will have slower oil flow and the entire weight of the mower at any position will not overreact and cause bouncing. Bouncing from the simple traveling of the mower must be avoided as it can and will cause the mule to sway back and forth and up and down. Please invest in a full rack of suitcase weights for the front of the tractor.

 

[nikdfish]

Maschio has restrictor sets that run $23 per cylinder (two restrictors per cylinder). I'll have to see if they fit the FL1061S & whether they might already be installed. They are two way restrictors that fit between the hoses & check valve on both of the flail's cylinders.

Agristoreusa has adjustable restrictors that replace the banjo bolts on the top link for about $12 each. Not precision devices but adequate to get you in the desired ballpark.

 

[LouNY]

I have the one way restrictors on mine, I dampen the down pivot and the swing out. I have the up pivot and retract unrestricted.
It works well when I need to clear an obstacle it will bounce the tractor a bit.

 

[nikdfish]

I have hit a speed bump. The JD rear remote kit (4th & 5th scv) was installed OK. The Fasse multiplier turned out to be a problem. When installed in one SCV, It blocks the other. I need another way to get another SCV in the back so I can have a hydraulic top link in addition to the two SCV's for the flail.

Any suggestions for a known good solution? The only thing JD suggested was a 3rd function on the FEL joystick for more $ than the Fasse, which was already high.

 

[bdhsfz6]

Yeah, I have a T&T kit, so I needed a fourth rear remote for the flail. At first, I just disconnected the tilt cylinder, but I found it was useful to get the flail adjusted properly.

I already had a 3rd function valve, so I ran hoses back and installed another remote housing to the stack:

As you say, definitely not a cheap option though.

 

[nikdfish]

I've asked them to look at inserting a pair of elbows prior to each of the male quick connects to provide enough offset for clearance. Actually they could replace the JD females & Fasse males with pipe and elbows.

 

[leonz]

I forgot to add this yesterday but you cannot use schedule forty water pipe fittings as they will break from the pressure.


If your dealer has an Eaton Parker Hanafin or Aeroquip hydraulic fittings catalog they can obtain the correct hydraulic pressure rated steel elbows and pipe nipples for your mule.

 

[nikdfish]

I forgot to add this yesterday but you cannot use schedule forty water pipe fittings as they will break from the pressure.


If your dealer has an Eaton Parker Hanafin or Aeroquip hydraulic fittings catalog they can obtain the correct hydraulic pressure rated steel elbows and pipe nipples for your mule.

Right. I was referring to hydraulic fittings &, when talking with the dealer, mentioned them looking through their supply of hydraulic fittings to find the right combo.

 

[Bearsixty7]

Just about ready to pull the trigger. It is a two part purchase,

2) ordering a Frontier FL1061S (mfg by Maschio) 61" hydraulic offset flail via my local JD dealer.

The attraction to this package is the ability to cut with the unit turned vertically 90 degrees, while offset 83" right of center. I really need to clear & maintain encroaching growth around fields & an unmaintained "farm" road (dirt track through several properties used for equipment access over the last 70 years or so). I also cut some roadside bank areas in our development where the downward slant option will be useful.

This particular flail is a new item for JD & earliest availability is mid September. It is sized appropriately for use with the 3038e & comes with hammers installed on the drum. I could probably save a few bucks buying the Matchup branded model, but this way I have local access to parts & service. Same with the remotes kit & install via JD.

Interesting thread! I have been researching a few weeks for a hydraulic offset flail mower and not really finding any brands I trusted to be available around here or in MO. where it will be used.
My searching didn't turn up the JD/Frontier models but what you have found is exactly what would work for me on my LS and there is a JD dealer in the town near our property. I'm really anxious to hear how your experience is with it.

Question though, How do you know it's made by Maschio? I don't see any mention of it on the JD website.

https://www.deere.com/en/cutters-shredders/flail-mowers-and-shredders/fl10s-series/

 

[nikdfish]

The sales person knew maschio was the manufacturer. Pictures of the gearbox also show 'Maschio' on the top casting. The Frontier FL10 & FL10S lineup is basically the same as the Maschio "Weekend Warrior" line, targeted to the smaller tractors & hobby farm market.

 

[Bearsixty7]

The sales person knew maschio was the manufacturer. Pictures of the gearbox also show 'Maschio' on the top casting. The Frontier FL10 & FL10S lineup is basically the same as the Maschio "Weekend Warrior" line, targeted to the smaller tractors & hobby farm market.

Have you seen yours yet? Does it look like this with the 2 hyd cylinders?
I ask because in the text on the website it doesn't mention cutting at the 90 degrees and the pictures are not all of the same mower. It would make you think it only shifts to the side via one cylinder. Hopefully it's just poor assembling of text and pictures.

 

[nikdfish]

Haven't seen it in the flesh yet, but the FL1061S does have the +90° to -60° range of motion for the flail as well as left/right movement. Gearbox is inboard & belts outboard (above pic has outboard gearbox). I found a user manual on the JD site, but not in english (!).

I decided to have the Fasse multiplier deleted from the PO. The service tech was not sure it wouldn't eventually leak if attached via offsetting hardware. Also the valve body has no provision for mounting on a bracket - no holes or tabs, so routing soft hoses wasn't an option. I'll be picking it up with just the two rear SCV's & doing my own multiplier later.

 

[Tinhack]

Still may end up adding restrictors on the flail cylinders.

My Novatractor flail came with one for the tilt cylinder. I plan to add one on the extend cylinder as well. My control valve levers seem really stiff, and levers are short. I may make some new extended levers since the T&T cylinders are squirrely too.

 

[leonz]

My Novatractor flail came with one for the tilt cylinder. I plan to add one on the extend cylinder as well. My control valve levers seem really stiff, and levers are short. I may make some new extended levers since the T&T cylinders are squirrely too.

View attachment 1486146

Hello and good morning Tinhack,


If your hydraulic system is cold it will be sluggish.

Please do not make extension handles for the spool valves on your mule.
If you do this, you will damage them, and they will all leak prematurely.
each spool valve is a finely polished chromed cylinder with machined surfaces
that allow oil to flow to one function or the other connected to the 3 spool valves.

The end of each spool has a spring to keep the spool centered and to allow the hydraulic
oil to flow without restriction UNLESS one of the spools is moved with the lever which
places a load on the hydraulic pump.

The spool valves on your mule are designed to be replaced individually if they are worn
out from massive duty cycles and leaking.

The 3 spool valves on your mule are individual stacked spool valves with are separated
with square cut gaskets between each section. The hydraulic system of your mule is an
open center hydraulic system allowing all 3 spool valves to operate independently with
a constant low pressure oil flow. The oil pressure in the system increases only when one
of the open center spools is moved in one direction or another place a load/resistance
to oil flow on the hydraulic pump.

 

[Tinhack]

I wouldn't think about putting an offset like that behind anything less than 8000 pounds. The most dangerous thing is hooking something with the deck and rolling the tractor.

Most of the time, the off-set mower is on the ground riding on the roller. Unless, of course, you have it vertical and trimming bushes. Even then, the extended weight is reduced.

all three circuits meaning that you must install one metering valve on both cylinder ports as there will not be enough room to mount them on the hose ends...As the common restrictor valve will have no restrictor on the return oil circuit and as a result you will have full oil flow and that is a big no, no.

Nonsense. Fluid won't enter a cylinder faster than it can leave the other side of the piston. The restrictor reduces the flow going in or out, so you only need one on a cylinder. Just make sure the restrictor you get is bidirectional. Some do, indeed, restrict in one direction. So, know what you're getting.

 

[leonz]

nikdfish,

Please order the 2 restrictors per cylinder per the Maschio design as you need complete control of each cylinder
to provide the slow movement of the mower that is needed as the flow of oil on the unrestricted cylinder port
back to tank will react quickly due to the weight exerted by the mower.

 

[nikdfish]

It's home. They used the hydraulic top link while getting it mounted, then removed the hoses & hooked up the flail hydraulics. The top link has a pilot check valve so it holds position until live hydraulic action changes it.

I figured out my intended DIY multiplier configuration. It will be based on a one solenoid diverter kit from Summit Hydraulics. The only additional thing needed will be a couple of 12" hoses w/ 1/2" male NPT ends. All other needed hardware (other than a bracket) is included. I can fabricate a bracket that will attach to the JD rear scv bracket. Should be, ballpark, $400 for everything.

 

[nikdfish]

Looking forward to see this rig and learning the final costs.

Dual rear scv - $1637.10 (parts & labor)
FL1061S - $6800 (delivered & assembled)
Top Link w/hoses - $280.23 (delivered)
only other charges were NC sales tax