New 2025 Ram 1500 with hurricane engine.

[Hay Dude]

So, I was casually browsing FB Marketplace, saving items that I'm never going to buy or even message folks about, as everyone does , and I came across a Ford Explorer with a bad turbo. So, hop online, expecting a turbo to be $4500 or so; and I was surprised, I think it was $800. With that, no idea what a Hurricane turbo costs, but let's say they are $1200 each, that's less of a boulder hanging over the buyers head than I expected.

The price of the turbo is just the beginning. It can grow from there.

 

[Hay Dude]

Looks like gas engines are leap frogging diesel engines in complexity.

 

[WinterDeere]

A urn to put the ashes in when it blows up .
50% plastic, 50% metal, I'd be hard pressed to validate purchasing something like that but it's the way things are going. To each his own tho.

Each generation of engine generally achieves higher reliability than its predecessors, if not initially, then after some revision. It is why cars routinely go 3x more miles today, than four or five decades ago.

When people complain about today's vehicles, I think they must just forget how horrendously unreliable their older vehicles truly were.

 

[not2old]

Each generation of engine generally achieves higher reliability than its predecessors, if not initially, then after some revision. It is why cars routinely go 3x more miles today, than four or five decades ago.

When people complain about today's vehicles, I think they must just forget how horrendously unreliable their older vehicles truly were.

I remember when few cars would last to 100,000 miles without a new motor and transmission. Almost everything today will last twice as long.

 

[mrmikey]

The price of the turbo is just the beginning. It can grow from there.

Just like buying a motorbike....it's just a downpayment for the accessories

 

[Hay Dude]

I remember when few cars would last to 100,000 miles without a new motor and transmission. Almost everything today will last twice as long.

But costs 4X as much…..

I can tell you right now, trucks cost 3X what they cost in 2000. I bought (2) brand new Ford Superduty diesels in 2000 from the same dealer. Each truck was $29,000.
Equivalent models today would be $85,000.

VERY few contractors, farmers, etc are making 3X what they made in 2000.

All that being said, they are more powerful & capable, but the cost is tremendous compared to earnings. I would reluctantly admit, I prefer todays trucks. The powertrains are way better, but the complexity of them knocks them down a few pegs….

 

[WinterDeere]

But costs 4X as much…..

I can tell you right now, trucks cost 3X what they cost in 2000. I bought (2) brand new Ford Superduty diesels in 2000 from the same dealer. Each truck was $29,000.
Equivalent models today would be $85,000.

Good point. I guess what we have to look at is lost principle ($purchase minus $resale) scaled for inflation, for those buying new and reselling, or inflation-scaled $purchase / mile lifespan for those keeping the thing until it goes to the junk yard.

I'll keep scaling all numbers back to 2024 dollars, as any other way gets real messy.

The first one is easy, assuming you keep the vehicles similar mileage in both cases, $29k in 2000 scales to roughly $54k today. So initial purchase of $85k today is roughly 1.6x more than in 2000, when scaling out inflation. But resale of a model year 2000 in 2010, versus a model year 2024 in 2034, is also going to be much lower. This means you'll recoup more of that initial cost on the back end.

Here's a graph of average pickup truck pricing over the last 15 years, just lumping all levels together.

Your HD trucks are going to be above this curve, but let's just talk relative comparison. The average was $20k in 2010, when you might have sold the model year 2000 truck, which scales to about $29k in 2024 dollars. If we project the average slope of the last ten years ($34k - $23k = $1.1k/year) out to 2034, we're looking at about $45k in 2024 dollars. So your average resale is up the same 1.6x as the initial purchase, again all in 2024 dollars.

This means your cost per year or mile is also up 1.6x, assuming you drive roughly the same mileage today as back then, and ignoring frequency of repair (which was probably higher in 2000).

And that's not to sh*t on your point about 4x, as even 1.6x is a crap-ton of money, when talking about vehicle prices. After all, a 30 year old guy buying a truck in 2024 is not making 1.6x more than a 30 year old guy in 2000, once you scale everything for inflation. In fact, averages may have gone down, once scaled for inflation, if claims about a growing spread between lower and upper class are true.

PS -- The guys who probably did really well, are those who bought ca.2011 or 2012, and resold in 2021 or 2022. Just look at that huge leap in pricing between 2020 and 2022! Of course, just finding a new truck to replace the one you just sold in 2022 was a huge problem, which is likely the reason for the big spike in used truck pricing.

 

[Hay Dude]

Now add in the insane cost of parts, repair/hour costs, fuel costs, and the big hidden cost of insurance.

 

[WinterDeere]

Now add in the insane cost of parts, repair/hour costs, fuel costs, and the big hidden cost of insurance.

Yeah, the total cost math gets real messy. But I do have to say, other than tires and brakes, I really spend almost nothing on parts these days. Grand total of repairs on my last truck was one torn rubber CV joint boot, my own fault for piercing it with a branch while off-roading. Grand total of repairs on my current truck is one little plastic gear in an electric powered folding mirror assembly, which I replaced with a metal gear, which was like $65 and came with a new motor.

My 1995 Chevy had a burn rate on parts that was easily 100x higher than what I've put into my 2005 or 2015 Ram's, not just because it was a Chevy, but probably more because it was 1995.

To me, it always seemed the cost of brake components (discs, pads) was much higher in the 1990's than today, when scaled for inflation. Maybe it's because I was poor then, and just don't notice the cost as much today, but I don't think it's just that.

 

[Hay Dude]

I just spent $9,000 repairing (not replacing!) a head on my 9.3L (HT570) diesel. I was busy during the summer and let an “affordable” diesel shop I have used before handle it.
Even a MY 2007 diesel engine is very complex. The gasket & head bolts kit from International was $1,800! The head machining was $1,300. The exhaust manifold bolts had to be drilled out. The exhaust manifold gaskets, turbo gaskets and other gaskets and hardware were about $1,500. The rest was labor. We did replace the EGR, so that was a few grand more. Throw in new fluids and everything else and it adds up real fast.

Thats about the same as it was to replace an entire engine 20+ years ago.

I can’t even wrap my brain around an entire diesel engine replacement.