JD 650 Compact 3 pt hydraulics not lifting weight

[Edensgardenertx]

At the beginning of the summer, noticing slow lift and dragging of the loader, I drained the fluid, pulled the screen, (which was clean), and refilled the box to the correct level.

Things seemed to work pretty good. Then the tractor sat much of the summer after a few mowing jobs due to drought.

Now, I'm having lift issues again - surely the fluid can't be dirty after only a few hours - I ran it hundreds of hours before even checking it the first time and the filter was perfectly clean.

The lift is slow even without a load. I took the mower off.

There appears to be pressure in the line. When I crack open the oil lid it hisses. FE Loader lifts just fine.

What else could it be?

 

[WinterDeere]

Your subject implies you've lost pressure (weight), but post implies pressure is good, but speed is poor.

If the latter, maybe debris got stuck in the needle valve that controls descent rate on the 3-point? Did you try cranking that all the way open, cycling, and then setting back to where you need it?

 

[Edensgardenertx]

Pressure SEEMS to be good, as it's hissing when I open the cap. Ar we talking about the valve under the seat? It was VERY tight, but I did manage to screw it over to the open (counter clockwise I think - i followed the arrow), how far should I go and will it make any difference unless it's under weight? Cuz i took the mower off. it will not lift AT ALL with the weight of the mower on it.

 

[Edensgardenertx]

ok, opened up the valve all the way, ran it a few mins, lifted and lowered - with my weight on it - (bout 130#) and it raised and lowered. I'll eat lunch and then try the mower again. Fingers crossed that's all it was - thank you! @WinterDeeree

 

[WinterDeere]

That valve controls flow to the rockshaft, which lifts the 3-point linkage. Closing it restricts flow, and controls how fast the implement drops when you lower the position on the quadrant (control lever). To set:

1. Close valve a little farther than you believe you need to.
2. Raise implement.
3. Lower implement setting.
4. Open valve until it floats down at desired rate.

 

[Edensgardenertx]

Awesome - great, and thank you! This tractor didn't come with any lessons or life long experience. I've been learning as I go since I got it several years ago.

 

[WinterDeere]

That machine is old enough and popular enough, you might luck into a free .pdf copy of the manual online. Otherwise, there's always used manuals on ebay. I very briefly had a 750, which is my closest familiarity with that particular model.

 

[jd110]

Make sure link #2 pivots freely on shaft #5. I have seen some of these get rusty and need to be freed up to work properly. It relies on spring pressure to move and if too tight to pivot, spring can't move it.

 

[Edensgardenertx]

here we are again guys - loader goes up and down no issue. But the 3pt is flat out not moving up with weight on it.
#2 pivots ok - I checked that pin and it goes in and out - the lines are all for the bucket, but they're not pinched anyway. it looks like it's a straight shot from the box to the metal line to the back where it is supposed to go up and down.

How can the front work ok, but not the back? Thanks for any guidance - it's time to WORK dagnabit! I need to get that mower and disk going! !

 

[rScotty]

We need more information. The FEL and 3pt only share hydraulic fluid & pressure. All the components that use that pressure are discrete. Including cylinders and controls.
What position did it stop i?. Will it move without any weight? How much? Does the relief valve make noise when you try to lift it with weight?
I suppose you checked the normal thing like the trans/hydraulic fluid and it is full and not milky.
BTW, power steering was rare on the 650. JD offered an aftermarket kit. Does yours have PS?

 

[Edensgardenertx]

We need more information. The FEL and 3pt only share hydraulic fluid & pressure. All the components that use that pressure are discrete. Including cylinders and controls.
What position did it stop i?. Will it move without any weight? How much? Does the relief valve make noise when you try to lift it with weight?
I suppose you checked the normal thing like the trans/hydraulic fluid and it is full and not milky.
BTW, power steering was rare on the 650. JD offered an aftermarket kit. Does yours have PS?

control on side of seat for 3pt, will raise w/o weight, fluid is full and clear. No ps. relief valve? do you mean the lever that raises? it will lift when I take off the mower/disk - it's slow though. Thanks!

 

[rScotty]

control on side of seat for 3pt, will raise w/o weight, fluid is full and clear. No ps. relief valve? do you mean the lever that raises? it will lift when I take off the mower/disk - it's slow though. Thanks!

There is a drop speed regulator under the front of the seat. It is a needle valve that will control drop speed of an implement ...but not raising speed. Have you worked with that? If you raise up the 3pt arms and put weight on the arms, turning in that valve clockwise should slow and then completely prevent the arms from dropping . Does it?

So far I believe what you have is simply fixed. Sounds like the O ring seal on the 3pt lift piston is shot. WHere a piston in a motor would have a ring set, the 3pt piston has a rubber O ring. But check the valve above first.

 

[Edensgardenertx]

There is a drop speed regulator under the front of the seat. It is a needle valve that will control drop speed of an implement ...but not raising speed. Have you worked with that? If you raise up the 3pt arms and put weight on the arms, turning in that valve clockwise should slow and then completely prevent the arms from dropping . Does it?

So far I believe what you have is simply fixed. Sounds like the O ring seal on the 3pt lift piston is shot. WHere a piston in a motor would have a ring set, the 3pt piston has a rubber O ring. But check the valve above first.

are you referring to the round dial under the seat that says open/close? If so, it's pretty much frozen. I've been able to move it to the opener stage once, but it's STIFF. I've never closed it though.

o ring seal on lift piston.... where is that? I have a pdf manual, but didn't see it.

 

[WinterDeere]

are you referring to the round dial under the seat that says open/close? If so, it's pretty much frozen. I've been able to move it to the opener stage once, but it's STIFF. I've never closed it though.

o ring seal on lift piston.... where is that? I have a pdf manual, but didn't see it.

Lower the quadrant (3-pt control lever), and then see if the knob turns more easily. Or do it with the 3-point lowered and tractor off. They can be real tough to turn when there's a load on the 3-point.

 

[rScotty]

Lower the quadrant (3-pt control lever), and then see if the knob turns more easily. Or do it with the 3-point lowered and tractor off. They can be real tough to turn when there's a load on the 3-point.

Do what he says and also look again in the manual. Do you have parts or workshop manual?

That 3pt lowering speed valve can be removed entire and it has O rings too. They get old and need replacemet. Easy job, but look at the exploded diagram first.
The O ring on the lift cylinder piston requires taking the top off of the 3 pt. on most tractors. I'd have to check about the JD650. It sounds terrible but is actually an easy job.

If you want, I have some Yanmar parts and workshop manuals that are close enough & can post some images if you want. As you probably know, the JD650 is a re-badged Yanmar, and so the old Yanmar group - which has an active vintage site - is a better source for technical and mechanical info.
However, even though Yanmar made the JDx50 series - not many parts cross over.

 

[2manyrocks]

When I had similar trouble with my yanmar ym226d 3 pt, it was the o rings which were actually easy to replace like rscotty said.

 

[Edensgardenertx]

Do what he says and also look again in the manual. Do you have parts or workshop manual?

That 3pt lowering speed valve can be removed entire and it has O rings too. They get old and need replacemet. Easy job, but look at the exploded diagram first.
The O ring on the lift cylinder piston requires taking the top off of the 3 pt. on most tractors. I'd have to check about the JD650. It sounds terrible but is actually an easy job.

If you want, I have some Yanmar parts and workshop manuals that are close enough & can post some images if you want. As you probably know, the JD650 is a re-badged Yanmar, and so the old Yanmar group - which has an active vintage site - is a better source for technical and mechanical info.
However, even though Yanmar made the JDx50 series - not many parts cross over.

I have a pdf file from the net - I'm sure it's just a parts manual.

I have someone coming by tomorrow - I'm going to show all of this to him and see if he can help - I can not turn that thing, no matter what. I'll spray some wd40 on it today and see if that helps loosen it.

He's got a walk behind he's having to tear down himself, but this doesn't sound quite as complicated so maybe he'll welcome the challenge.

Thank you!

 

[Edensgardenertx]

Do what he says and also look again in the manual. Do you have parts or workshop manual?

That 3pt lowering speed valve can be removed entire and it has O rings too. They get old and need replacemet. Easy job, but look at the exploded diagram first.
The O ring on the lift cylinder piston requires taking the top off of the 3 pt. on most tractors. I'd have to check about the JD650. It sounds terrible but is actually an easy job.

If you want, I have some Yanmar parts and workshop manuals that are close enough & can post some images if you want. As you probably know, the JD650 is a re-badged Yanmar, and so the old Yanmar group - which has an active vintage site - is a better source for technical and mechanical info.
However, even though Yanmar made the JDx50 series - not many parts cross over.

post away. Please. I have a farmer coming out tomorrow and he's probably more capable than me on something like this - so I'll share it all with him and see if we can figure it all out. Thank you!

 

[beenthere]

Schematic from JD parts of 650 lowering valve.

https://partscatalog.deere.com/jdrc/sidebyside/equipment/21841/referrer/navigation/pgId/1293348

Page back a couple for the lift cylinder schematics.

 

[rScotty]

post away. Please. I have a farmer coming out tomorrow and he's probably more capable than me on something like this - so I'll share it all with him and see if we can figure it all out. Thank you!

I don't have a JD650 book, but here are some from a possibly similar Yanmar model.
They are what I would be looking for if I was doing this job.

The parts #23 to 29 in the dotted inset 11 show the lowering valve. That could be your problem if yours is stuck. It's a valve very much like any needle valve.
Parts 17 thru 22 are the relief (safety) valve. Clean it up too. sometimes the valve parts are so stuck you have to take off the head #12 and push the parts out from inside.

But the needle valve only controls speed DOWN. If yours is slow going up or has no power then my guess is that you need to take off the 3pt head part #12, and replace the O ring #38 on the piston #37. . Hone the cylinder.

All the O rings are standard if JD doesn't have them an o ring shop will. Be sure to get an O ring #14 too.
luck,
rScotty