dumb question about HST

[Eagle1]

I work and maintain a couple of orchards, so working in tight places with loads and loads of direction changes is what I do the most. I can maneuver as precisely as I want around all of those tress and tight quarters.

Obviously, one should buy what fits their use the best. That's wasn't my point, ever.

My point was just about all the myths that get spread out towards the geared transmissions. 99% of them are completely unfounded.

We can agree on that, choice is good.

Guess it is funny I feel that way about CVT in ATVs, much prefer gears to belt drive...

 

[jyoutz]

A possible problem with HST on hills is controlling load or stopping going down hill. With HST you are decreasing the pump displacement to go slower or like gear you can idle engine down to provide engine braking - hydrostatic braking. Most HST have wheel brake pedals on same side of tractor as HST pedal so hard to use both at same time to stop.

Climbing a hill with HST on cruise will slow more than gear. How much depends on quality of HST components.

For pulling loads down the road I would probably choose gear vs HST especially if heavy loads on hills.

The MX tractors have the brakes on the left and the HST pedals on the right. And many of the other newer models do as well. I’m scratching my head wondering what you’re talking about with HST tractors pulling a load and up hills? Mine does all of those things very well.

 

[jyoutz]

We went from a 30 HP gear drive New Holland to a 40 HP HST New Holland. Have been using it for 3 years or more now. Here's my experience:

- HST sucks for transport (driving the tractor to a new location). It will not climb steep hills unless I'm in low or medium range on the transmission, and even in medium it'll struggle some if I have the FEL and an implement on at the same time. The gear drive tractor would pull up any hill in nearly any gear. This leads me to believe that plowing a field with a HST tractor would be a very slow operation. And it also means high range on the HST is useless in most conditions.

- Location of pedals is critical. Some brands are idiots and put the brake and HST controls on the same side. Do not buy from those brands. Some brands use a "treadle" instead of individual forward and reverse pedals. I hate those also. My New Holland has independent forward reverse on the right, and independent left/right brake on the left. That's much safer and much more "user friendly".

- Cruise control is a must. Some brands do not include cruise control standard on HST models. New Holland did, and I am thankful.

- After using the HST tractor for a few years I would never go back to gear drive. Loader work, grading work, and all work that requires slow finesse is lightyears easier and safer with HST. I absolutely love it. I don't plow fields with it, so HST is the way to go for me.

Unrelated side note: My new tractor uses a turbo to get the 40 HP rating. When at PTO RPM (mowing, etc.) the turbo engines will drink diesel fuel like they've got a bad habit. Keep that in mind. Between feeding that engine enough fuel to keep up with the airflow from the turbo, and the fact that the hydrostat consumes a lot of horsepower, you're going to need to keep diesel fuel on hand. When I'm not doing PTO work I run the engine at 1700 RPM and then it's fairly efficient.

It all depends on the hp of the HST tractor. My 63hp HST pulls hills very well without any hesitation.

 

[oldnslo]

The MX tractors have the brakes on the left and the HST pedals on the right. And many of the other newer models do as well. I’m scratching my head wondering what you’re talking about with HST tractors pulling a load and up hills? Mine does all of those things very well.

Smaller CUT tractors with dual range HST have an issue of significant gear increase from HST to rear wheels in high range so they really struggle pulling load up hills similar to the older M & H Farmall with 5th road gear. Go fast down the road but wouldn’t pull their shadow up hill.

Larger tractors with larger HST this is less of a problem

 

[jyoutz]

Smaller CUT tractors with dual range HST have an issue of significant gear increase from HST to rear wheels in high range so they really struggle pulling load up hills similar to the older M & H Farmall with 5th road gear. Go fast down the road but wouldn’t pull their shadow up hill.

Larger tractors with larger HST this is less of a problem

Do they still sell tractors with only dual range HST?

 

[oldnslo]

Do they still sell tractors with only dual range HST?

To the best of my knowledge yes that is still a semi common feature. I believe Deere 2,000 series, some Kubota B series and BX series, TYM Branson have dual, etc.

 

[LouNY]

HST trannies are not my favorite for much of anything.
I've used and ran large old Hydro's IH656,1026, hydro100 when they were new. Excellent on PTO work and nice and handy for cultivators but that was about it.

At the present time sitting in my yard is Kubota F2000 lawn mower (19 Hp) it's hydrostatic and does an excellent job.

Next up is the little Kioti CK2620 it is a hydrostatic (25 Hp) it does the job were I and when I wish to go real slow and my wife isn't very afraid of it. Otherwise it is very non-impressive, with the backhoe on it can just barely make the driveway in mid-range. I think it would have been a better tractor with a well geared transmission.

Next up the ol IH574, 4 speed inline shifted transmission with a hi-lo-reverse box also an inline shift pattern. It has been a good tractor used on back blades, a 14 foot wide area mower, an 8 ft snow blower, and it's many purpose these days a PTO generator. It's a quick snappy nimble handling tractor.

Then the tractor that actually gets used the most the Branson 8050 a 3 range (non-synchronized) with a synchronized 4 speed and a power shuttle. Easy to drive, easy to shift, good power and handling. Runs a loader with minimal effort. It used to go over to the farm until recently to be used on the corn planter and grain drill.
It tedded and raked hay, loaded round bales and such. For me it's driveway and brush hogging and flail mower, along with snow removal and similar tasks.

Then the big boy bought for one specific purpose a NH 8160 with 18 forward gears and 6 in reverse, all push button shifts with 6 gears and 3 ranges, then the left hand power shuttle. With a running weight of 13,000-16,000 pounds when she is chained up the pull type sand spreader behaves even on icey hills.
I bought her because the sander could push the Branson 8050 (12,000 pounds) some times coming down hill with a full load and possibly be a handfull.

I don't own a CVT (but I certainly would), power shifts and power shuttles are great, power shuttle and geared transmission are good, pure mechanical with a shuttle work good, hydrostatic transmissions are noisy, power sucking, easy to use, very inefficient transmission.

And that is my opinion having used many different transmissions over the years.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Yeaaa, you never know when you are going to want to pull a load of logs home!

SR

 

[jyoutz]

To the best of my knowledge yes that is still a semi common feature. I believe Deere 2,000 series, some Kubota B series and BX series, TYM Branson have dual, etc.

I have to agree that HST would rob power from those lower hp machines and two ranges would be limiting. But typically they aren’t intended for pulling trailers and large cutters.

 

[oldnslo]

I have to agree that HST would rob power from those lower hp machines and two ranges would be limiting. But typically they aren’t intended for pulling trailers and large cutters.

I suspect that is part of the confusion on the thread. What HP tractor are we talking about being used for what purpose or purposes?

20-25 HP doing loader work in tight quarters or mowing lawn, or 40 - 60 HP doing some loader work, plowing or discing some food plots, brush hogging etc. or 100 plus HP doing farm work.
Would one tranny style be best for all those applications or is HST better option for 25 HP doing fine loader work while some form of gear or power shift would be better for 100 plus HP.

Like Lou I have driven tractors built in 50s and 60s that were pure gear with no shuttle or synchro, up to 500 plus HP with power shift.
Also drove an old Steiger with Allison automatic and hi lo range where you had to be at dead stop to shift from hi to lo.

Have only spent couple hours on IVT or CVT. Biggest concern that I have read about the *VT trans is power loss to draw bar but have no actual seat time to confirm this.