Question on 21 year old buying a car

[Rockbadchild]

Milage vs year; in this day, I think its not unreasonable to get to get something below 120k. Id rather a 3 year old vehicle with 120k, than a 15 year old vehicle with 60k. Of coarse there is a lot of room between those two extremes. I worry when I see something with less than 6k/year, meaning it just sat.

I would say it depends on the price... when you see a 3 years old vehicle they often still ask top dollar for it like $20,000 but it has 100k on it when you can add $10,000 and have one new its a no brainer to go new... The price of used vehicle is very good lately, considering the maintained cost increase after 100k it get to a point that the choice is not as obvious.

 

[Sigarms]

Milage vs year; in this day, I think its not unreasonable to get to get something below 120k. Id rather a 3 year old vehicle with 120k, than a 15 year old vehicle with 60k. Of coarse there is a lot of room between those two extremes. I worry when I see something with less than 6k/year, meaning it just sat.

Completely agree.

My wife and I are a a lot alike in that aspect. We've never owned a new vehicle in our lives, nor do we want to, as it generally loses money once its driven off the lot.

We bought a 2001 accord about 5 years ago with 91K on it for 5 grand for the kids to learn how to drive. Car worked out great, sold it a buddies father for his daughter who was still living with him at a great price IMO for 3K with 121K on the odometer.

Our truck and SUV we paid a total of about 30K for both, having a combined mileage of 138K (1998 year on the truck and 2008 year on the SUV). Combined 33 years later owning both of them, they now have a combined mileage of 485K. On major service bills, we've probably paid another 15K (less oil changes and tires). That may sound like a lot for service work, but that's over a 33 year period time. Reality is it would be pretty easy to spend 30K alone on a new vehicle in 2008.

My boss once told me I had to be a rich man. I asked him why. Because at the time, we owned 4 vehicles of our own and my son had his when living with us before he enlisted. What I asked my boss is how many vehicles he had, he told me two. I asked him how much did those two vehicles cost him combined, and he said about 100K. I looked at him and told him those 4 vehicles cost me less than 50K combined. I told him he sounded more rich to me for having 2 vehicles that cost twice as much as my 4 combined LOL

My wife did make me get rid of our 1998 Avalon though. Bought it for 10K with 75K on the odometer, and she got tired of all the nuances the car had when it 375k on it. Finally got rid of it at 396K. We just will drive a car into the ground as once you buy something outright, the only cost is maintenance and insurance.

That said, my work truck is a 2020 Ford 150, and it has 196K on it now, and to be honest, I've been impressed with it (no real service other than oil changes and tires). My boss bought a new F150 Tremor model for a pretty penny, and 6 months later it was in the shop for over 2 weeks. Go figure.

We do have my dads 2017 Honda V6 coupe he left me when he died (that was sporty enough for my dad LOL). He gave his grandsons driving lessons in that car. Car is sitting in the garage with only 67K on the odometer, and I told my son when he's in his 40's and married with kids someday, that car will be his as I know my dad would want him to have it as they had some good memories sharing it (it wasn't until my dad died that I learned he was teaching my son how to fishtail it though, not certain if I should be happy or mad LOL). We still have the Polkas CD's in it and they'll stay there along with their wedding bans and how my dad "left it".

 

[Runner]

(it wasn't until my dad died that I learned he was teaching my son how to fishtail it though, not certain if I should be happy or mad LOL).

Handbrake U-turns and snap oversteer response/prevention are things every person using front wheel drive cars should practice.

 

[Sigarms]

Handbrake U-turns and snap oversteer response/prevention are things every person using front wheel drive cars should practice.

I don't disagree with you.

Funny thing is my dad didn't go over that training with me, but he did with his grandkids.

For some reason, it seemed easier for my dad with his grandkids than it was with me. My boys loved him, and when I was their age (at that time with him as a kid), he was nothing but a hard ass with me. Go figure.

 

[Runner]

I don't disagree with you.

Funny thing is my dad didn't go over that training with me, but he did with his grandkids.

For some reason, it seemed easier for my dad with his grandkids than it was with me. My boys loved him, and when I was their age (at that time with him as a kid), he was nothing but a hard ass with me. Go figure.

I've always heard that one of the advantages of being a grandparent is you get to spoil the grand kids and let the parents deal with the discipline.

 

[IndyIan]

In hindsight, I should have never bought that truck when I was in the Marine Corps. This was back in 1984 and I was stationed at Camp Pendleton in Southern California. The bus went to Oceanside and a few other places, but then you had to catch another bus to get to the Mall or where you wanted to go. Going out at night wasn't practical on the bus, so I wanted a truck. After getting the truck, I hardly every drove it because a group of us all went to town in the same car, that held a lot more people than my truck. It literally sat there for weeks at a time since everything on base was in walking distance. Then a year later I went overseas for Embassy Duty and those monthly payments really annoyed me. Fortunately, my parents were able to sell it for me while I was away. When I got out, I bought another truck from a different dealer and got started with my life. If I could go back in time, I would not have bought that truck or anything else while I was in the Marines.

Yeah, the money you spent on the truck could've been earning interest for you, instead of disappearing into depreciation and interest for them. I almost bought the $35k new pickup when we got our land, but at the end when we were finishing the house a few years later, I'm glad we didn't have that $40k hole in our bank account as we got in habitable without a mortgage! We made do with a couple trailers which carry more stuff and is easier to load than a pickup bed.

I guess it depends on his living situation, how much money he makes, but out of the rust belt, $6-8k Mazda3/Matrix base engine manual hatchback should go to the moon and back with only simple stuff to fix. Banking $15-20-25k now really is nice for early retirement, or buying his patch of land to play tractors on, in 8-10 years.

 

[WinterDeere]

I would like for him to build up his independence from us on buying a car, and was wondering at what point does a 21 year not need their parents to co sign a car loan on their behalf? I thinking with the limited credit history, if he can't buy the car paid in cash in full, he would need our signature.

Forgive me if you mentioned it, I didn't read all 5 pages of the thread, but what's he doing when he gets back? Is he going back to school, or starting his career?

I figure we'll be paying our kids expenses until they finish whatever schooling is required to launch their respective careers, and possibly co-signing loans some time a little past that. They may have their own jobs along the way, but as long as their primary focus is school, I can afford to support them.

Of course that all flips when they start into their career. My mother's greatest thrill was when I started taking her out to dinner, and paying for her to come visit us on vacation, versus the other way around. I'm looking forward to being treated for dinner, but we're still a few years off from that, here.

 

[Sigarms]

Forgive me if you mentioned it, I didn't read all 5 pages of the thread, but what's he doing when he gets back? Is he going back to school, or starting his career?

I figure we'll be paying our kids expenses until they finish whatever schooling is required to launch their respective careers, and possibly co-signing loans some time a little past that. They may have their own jobs along the way, but as long as their primary focus is school, I can afford to support them.

Of course that all flips when they start into their career. My mother's greatest thrill was when I started taking her out to dinner, and paying for her to come visit us on vacation, versus the other way around. I'm looking forward to being treated for dinner, but we're still a few years off from that, here.

There are 3 possibilities when his deployment is up.

1 - He comes back to his primary duty station, which is less than a 4 hour drive from around our area.

2 - He comes back, only to find out that his duty station is changing somewhere else in the US.

3 - While overseas, he's offered the opportunity to transfer somewhere else outside the US (lets just say it's not the greatest place right now, and not what my wife feels is the "safest" area, but I told him if he gets offered Japan, Italy or Germany afterwards, he would be nuts not to go or volunteer LOL).

He's only been enlisted for a little over 2 years now. He has 4 more years to go and decide if he wants out or to stay in for another stint.

The nice thing is he's doing college classes now for free (although most likely not doing any right now due to his work schedule), and hopefully (if he decides to get out) he the Air Force will pay for schooling after that. He has a cousin that was stationed in Jersey, spent 4 years active, 2 years reserves, and he's out now, but is going to school for radiology and the Air Force is paying for it.

On a plus note, although he lost out in the competition for an early promotion before he left, he was informed that the promotion was coming when his deployment is up.

 

[JasperFrank]

There is Cool and then there is pragmatical. All my cars have been practical. I have absolutely no interest in pretending to being cool. Even when I was single. If the date thought, I'd have an expensive car or something, that's a one time date. Cause I don't tell them about any thing else. Books and Covers. If they don't want to read the book.........pass.

 

[WinterDeere]

There is Cool and then there is pragmatical. All my cars have been practical. I have absolutely no interest in pretending to being cool. Even when I was single. If the date thought, I'd have an expensive car or something, that's a one time date. Cause I don't tell them about any thing else. Books and Covers. If they don't want to read the book.........pass.

I can understand this sentiment, but on the flip side, there's the "dress for success" argument. Dating aside, everyone from prospective clients to employers make assumptions about your wealth and income, when making decisions on the compensation required to retain your services, based on what they might see you driving.

I'll show up in my 1/2 ton pickup truck to meet with clients, which is fine... they know I'm an engineer. But when my beloved 2005 Ram started rusting thru the body while still reliable as concrete in 2017, it had to go. I wasn't going to show up for a client meeting in a rusted-out pickup truck.

 

[paulsharvey]

For something you're going to spend over 1/12th of your life, and 1/8th of your waking hours in, there is something to be said for something you like, not strictly functional. It's somehow less painful to send a $650/month payment in for a vehicle that is awesome, then a $500/month payment on something you dont enjoy.

 

[Sigarms]

There is Cool and then there is pragmatical. All my cars have been practical. I have absolutely no interest in pretending to being cool. Even when I was single. If the date thought, I'd have an expensive car or something, that's a one time date. Cause I don't tell them about any thing else. Books and Covers. If they don't want to read the book.........pass.

I'm the same way.

My boy however is or was not, particularly when he turned 17 and wanted a Mercedes LOL

His own money, his own decision, even if I thought it was a mistake and told him so.

That said, he loves cars, and he loves working on them. There are much worse habits for young men IMO

When he took his Mercedes car door apart, he blew me away. That car has some really screwed up engineering.

He worked on the his mustang by himself, and not certain what he did, but if definitely had more power after the work. He made a lot of friends on base when he helped guys on their car, that's for sure LOL

He figures a more practical car will be easier to work on himself, and I'm all for that line of reasoning.

He sends me a picture of a watch. Apparently a guy gave him a watch over there that didn't work and told him if he could fix it, it's his. Told me he took the back plate off, figured out what the issue was, and now it's working. The kid is actually mechanically inclined. He didn't get that way until he bought his first car, and for that I'm grateful he bought the Mercedes, added the fact he was smart enough to trade it in.

Realistically, he probably doesn't need our signature for a loan, but when you 21 one year old boy is gaining independence and is now halfway around the world away from you, if he asks you if we could co sign "if he needs it" for a car you'd be hoping he'd get (being more practical), it seems like a dick move to say no.

 

[Sigarms]

For something you're going to spend over 1/12th of your life, and 1/8th of your waking hours in, there is something to be said for something you like, not strictly functional. It's somehow less painful to send a $650/month payment in for a vehicle that is awesome, then a $500/month payment on something you dont enjoy.

That's what he's working on, something that he would enjoy driving, as well as being more practical.

I'll give him credit, those two he looked at are actually pretty nice looking. When our Pilot goes out, we'll probably be buying a much newer one, but I told him the cars he was looking at is something that I wouldn't even mind buying. It's kind of nice when your son agrees with you LOL

 

[Sigarms]

There is Cool and then there is pragmatical. All my cars have been practical. I have absolutely no interest in pretending to being cool. Even when I was single. If the date thought, I'd have an expensive car or something, that's a one time date. Cause I don't tell them about any thing else. Books and Covers. If they don't want to read the book.........pass.

You made me think...

That's exactly what my dad use to think.

Mom passed away, and he was getting tired of his old Pontiac and he was also tired being the taxi driver for the family in his area because he could still drive at age 73 (back then). He wanted 2 doors, seats to small in the back to haul people, and a trunk to large enough to carry his clubs. Most importantly, if he were on the interstate doing 60 and wanted to pass a semi, he wanted to hit the gas, and have some "get up and go" in his own words.

He was also cheap, no more than 13K on a car he told me back in 2007 when he said he was interested in a new car LOL

He got that first accord back in 2007, second one around 2012, and the last one in 2018. He was visiting us out to dinner one night when he visited, and he saw his same accord coupe, but newer in a blue he really, really liked. I found out they stopped making them in 2017, and it just so happened that I found one in the color he liked locally, and pretty much the only one I could find in NC in 2018 at the time.

I told my dad they don't make them anymore, and that they now have memory seats so he didn't have to keep adjusting the seat. Told him if he was interested, I'll call the dealership. He told me he be down that weekend, drove 8 hours, and traded his old one for a new one.

He loved putting both windows down and open the sun roof, and play his polkas! Thought it was the best of both worlds because it was just as good as a convertible (when our son sold his mustang locally, we let him drive his grandfathers car for a couple of weeks on base, and he put a smile on my face when he said he had both windows down and the sunroom open driving back home, just like gramps LOL).

I'm glad I talked my father into his first "fun car" other than one he talked about in 1950 when he was in his late teens.

Learned a lot from my dad, and if and when I retire in my 70's, I'm going to do the same thing he did, buy an impractical car and have fun driving it!

Age 86 in the pic the first year he moved in with us. I was coming home and he was coming up from our local home road to go out for a ride. Luckily a year later, he decided to let the grandkids drive him around in his car because it was just getting to be too much for him and we didn't even have to ask him to stop driving as he knew he was getting old...

 

[JasperFrank]

Had a younger co-worker that said his dad, was giving him a 90's Corvette. I said to to him, do you know what your insurance on that car, being under 25 will cost you? He didn't know, I pulled a number out of you know where, it would be about $1200 a month. He shopped around insurance, an sure enough, it was about 1200 a month. So he bought a small truck instead, with his own money.

 

[Sigarms]

Had a younger co-worker that said his dad, was giving him a 90's Corvette. I said to to him, do you know what your insurance on that car, being under 25 will cost you? He didn't know, I pulled a number out of you know where, it would be about $1200 a month. He shopped around insurance, an sure enough, it was about 1200 a month. So he bought a small truck instead, with his own money.

I'll give my son credit. That is EXACTLY why he stayed away from a 8 cylinder and just went with a 6 banger in a mustang, as he looked into it and what the increase in his insurance would be.

 

[paulsharvey]

Had a younger co-worker that said his dad, was giving him a 90's Corvette. I said to to him, do you know what your insurance on that car, being under 25 will cost you? He didn't know, I pulled a number out of you know where, it would be about $1200 a month. He shopped around insurance, an sure enough, it was about 1200 a month. So he bought a small truck instead, with his own money.

I would expect high insurance on a sports car, but not a corvette? Yeah, in theory it has the features of a sports car, but is driven by 60 y/o dentists, every other Sunday. Dont know that ive ever seen a corvette listed with over 60,000 miles, and most are like 25,000 miles on a 15 year old car

 

[Sigarms]

I would expect high insurance on a sports car, but not a corvette?

I believe his point was the vette was a crapload on the insurance.

From what my son found per insurance is it's not so much that the car is classified as a "sports car" but the size of the engine and age of the kid driving it. V6 mustang I believe is running him around $1,200 a year. V8 mustang would run him over 10 grand a year.

I was hauling my Kubota into town for service a couple of years ago. I was doing 55MPH on the highway and found it funny I was passing a brand new Vette LOL Needless to say, the driver was far from young.

 

[WinterDeere]

I would expect high insurance on a sports car, but not a corvette? Yeah, in theory it has the features of a sports car, but is driven by 60 y/o dentists, every other Sunday.

??? I and nearly every one of my friends had our Corvettes in our 20's. We had Camaros and Mustangs in our late teens... poor-man's Corvettes.

This would have been the 1990's, and we were buying up 10 - 20 year old C3's and C4's, putting heads and custom cams in them... one buddy even did a roots blower on his C3. I never liked the C4 much, but the C3's were a thing of beauty to my 20-year old eyes.

 

[paulsharvey]

I was mostly joking about the corvette, but no, I dont think of them as a sports car, but as an old fart car...

On insurance; its a mix; if full coverage, the value of the insured vehicle, driving history, age, and risk profile. On liability, its just risk, age, and driving history. Oh, and of coarse level of insurance. If your on liability, or have any vehicle worth less than maybe $10k, i would assume its minimum legally required.

Risk is not just your accidents/driving record, its a complex data base, thats knows this age, this vehicle, this area, is likely to total a vehicle every 3.5 years.

With the risk profile, its not always obvious which vehicles are more expensive vs less; a 2006 Chevy 1500 might be higher risk then a Camaro, or a Yukon might be higher risk than a 350Z