Frost Free Yard Hydrant leaking down below

[Saddlebum]

Hello Everyone!

I'm new to this site and hope to spend lots of time hear reading and learning.

I live in Northern Lower Michigan and have 3 frost free hydrants. The one at the fence line which feeds water into my livestock tank has water leaking down below. The top works fine in that it turns on the water when the handle is lifted and turns it off when the handle is lowered BUT, you can hear the water running down below AND when I lift the handle up to turn on the water flow, there is sand that comes out with the water.

Also, the pump keeps coming on even when I am not running any water anywhere. This tells me that the water I am hearing still running in the frost free faucet at the fence line is causing the pump to turn on and off in the basement. You can't hearing anything in the other two hydrants when they're turned off.

I had a plumber come out who did not know that you can pull the rod up and had to spend some time convincing him that yes, you can pull it up if you thread the head back onto the rod just a few turns and give a good strong pull. The plug at the bottom was barely on so I tightened that onto the rod and we pushed it back down into the pipe and reset the head of the fauset but we could still hear the water flowing. I do have a shut off inside the basement to the two frost free fausets (one to the fence line and one inside my barn) so I can turn the water off to those but, it's a walk and the water is running the whole time I am outside until I come in to turn it off (I have to remember to do so).

I'm hoping someone here can clue me in as to what needs to be fixed to solve this problem. I am assuming I will have to dig this up this spring when the frost is gone because of the sand coming back up but, is there anything I can do right now to fix it so I don't have to keep turning the shut-off on and off in the basement?

I had the water line moved this past summer and the hydrant in the barn is new. The hydrant at the fence line is the old one I had been using for 3-4 years before I had the pole barn installed. The guys who moved it for me had lots of drain stone placed down below with a bucket I cut the bottom off of and plastic over the top of the and straw on the top of that. So I am assuming it was installed correctly and the problem is to do with the faucet itself. I purchased the faucet at Tractor Supply about 4 years ago (8 ft) with 4.5' in the ground and 3.5 above.

This has been going on for a few months with the pump going on and off and I finally heard the water running in the one hydrant at the fence line. I had been searching for a leak in the house till now. You can clearly hear the water running.

Also, the soil here is silty with pure sand below the hardpack (about 12" down). Basically, we live on a big sand dune in this region.
Thanks!

Saddlebum

 

[MWRR]

I have several of the frost free hydrants scattered about the ranch. They do make an overhaul kit for the ones that I have here, which basically include new seals and a rubber piece that goes on the end of the shaft located at the bottom of the hydrant. Don't know about your particular hydrant. The kits can be installed without digging up the hydrant. I would try that first, but with sand coming up as you describe I'm afraid that you have some type of break in the buried line or fittings. You should be thankful that you have a shut off in the house so that you can postpone repairs till better weather. Good luck.

 

[MWRR]

Forgot my manors.

Welcome to TBN. :thumbsup:

 

[Saddlebum]

hehehe, Thanks for the welcome! You're absolutely right, I am very thankful I have that shut-off in the basement -- a blessing really.

I'll buy the kit and go from there. The sand is a worry and will dig up the line this spring.

 

[DJ54]

Did you set the setscrew back on the pull rod where it was before..?? If so, adjust a scoonch more..??

If properly adjusted... Do any of the other hydrants have sand coming out..??

If not.... Did you put sand around your waterlines, or hydrant, to drain out in to..., or in naturally sandy ground..??

If so, possibly your water line may be leaking a bit, and syphoning sand into the line when you open the hydrant??

Or, if you did not put, like a 90 degree st. el on the drain port, and put like 3/4" washed gravel around the drain port, it may let sand syphon in valve seat.

 

[Saddlebum]

I don't know what the set screw is??

And, the guys put 10A drain stone all around the bottom and a bucket BUT, it's been doing this for quite some time and that is why I believe it's symphoning sand into the line somehow. Because the water has been running full bore for a few months and it's washed sand into the area of the stone. I will look see if the other two are bringing sand in but doubt it. The reason is, when I turn them on and then off, they are off, there is no sound of running water down below like there is with this particular hydrant.

 

[SandburRanch]

Hello Everyone!

I'm new to this site and hope to spend lots of time hear reading and learning.

I live in Northern Lower Michigan and have 3 frost free hydrants. The one at the fence line which feeds water into my livestock tank has water leaking down below. The top works fine in that it turns on the water when the handle is lifted and turns it off when the handle is lowered BUT, you can hear the water running down below AND when I lift the handle up to turn on the water flow, there is sand that comes out with the water.

Also, the pump keeps coming on even when I am not running any water anywhere. This tells me that the water I am hearing still running in the frost free faucet at the fence line is causing the pump to turn on and off in the basement. You can't hearing anything in the other two hydrants when they're turned off.

I had a plumber come out who did not know that you can pull the rod up and had to spend some time convincing him that yes, you can pull it up if you thread the head back onto the rod just a few turns and give a good strong pull. The plug at the bottom was barely on so I tightened that onto the rod and we pushed it back down into the pipe and reset the head of the fauset but we could still hear the water flowing. I do have a shut off inside the basement to the two frost free fausets (one to the fence line and one inside my barn) so I can turn the water off to those but, it's a walk and the water is running the whole time I am outside until I come in to turn it off (I have to remember to do so).

I'm hoping someone here can clue me in as to what needs to be fixed to solve this problem. I am assuming I will have to dig this up this spring when the frost is gone because of the sand coming back up but, is there anything I can do right now to fix it so I don't have to keep turning the shut-off on and off in the basement?

I had the water line moved this past summer and the hydrant in the barn is new. The hydrant at the fence line is the old one I had been using for 3-4 years before I had the pole barn installed. The guys who moved it for me had lots of drain stone placed down below with a bucket I cut the bottom off of and plastic over the top of the and straw on the top of that. So I am assuming it was installed correctly and the problem is to do with the faucet itself. I purchased the faucet at Tractor Supply about 4 years ago (8 ft) with 4.5' in the ground and 3.5 above.

This has been going on for a few months with the pump going on and off and I finally heard the water running in the one hydrant at the fence line. I had been searching for a leak in the house till now. You can clearly hear the water running.

Also, the soil here is silty with pure sand below the hardpack (about 12" down). Basically, we live on a big sand dune in this region.
Thanks!

Saddlebum

As bad as I dislike confirming what you already believe is the real solution, I'll go ahead and say it " start digging when the mood strikes" if such a thing is possible. At least you have mostly sand for the most part.

In my non professional opinion, there is a broken pipe in the area of the buried valve and the leak, which must be significant if you can hear it, is forming a sand slurry and that slurry is entering the drain opening when the hydrant is closed. When the hydrant is opened the drain hole is covered and the sand that was on top of the rubber plunger in the valve and pipe is delivered out the spigot.

When the supply is closed in the basement and the pressure falls to zero on that line some of that slurry could enter the pipe through the break but I don't believe that's where the majority of the sand from the hose connection is coming from.

At this time I don't believe you need a new repair kit. I don't see that being the problem at this time. Although when you do dig it up, as anyone would suspect, that would be an excellent time for a kit or complete new hydrant.

I've found over the years I've dealt with these hydrants that in sandy soil the gravel buried at the valve for drain purposes isn't necessary at all.

You have a better set up there than most by being able to isolate that one line and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[DJ54]

Where the brass rod/plunger attaches to the handle, there should be a piece between the handle, that slides down over that rod. On one side, or the other should be a set screw, with an approx. 3/8" square head. This is where you adjust your shut off. You can raise the handle to about half open, loosen the set screw, then raise the handle up just a smidge. Reset the screw, and try it. You should just feel very little tension, just before it snaps over center. If there is a name on the hydrant, you should be able to Google it, and detailed instructions on how to do it...

More than likely though, sounds like you have other problems...

Not sure how far it is from the shut off, to the hydrant. But if you need to put in a complete new line, you may want to consider doing what I did, after learning the hard way about 35 years ago.

I now use 160 psi, 3/4" black plastic going to the hydrants, and fountain. I use 1-1/4" low pressure BP for conduit. If the line ever needs replaced, just dig up the ends, cut it loose, and shove a new 3/4" through. What ever size you prefer..., just make sure the conduit is 1/2" larger, for plenty of room, in case there are curves in the line, or a rock works its way to it, exerting some pressure.

I had to replace one of my hydrants about 5 years ago in Feb., so know where you are coming from.

 

[Saddlebum]

I'll give the set screw a try and see but like both of you recent posters, I believe I am blessed with a turn-off valve to that line. There is no brand name on the hydrant when I was out there to night feeding.

If the set screw change doesn't do the trick (doubtful), I will dig it up with a new hydrant handy this coming Spring - ah, of course, when the mood stricks - hehehe.

thanks!

 

[schweizer]

I've had problems with leaky yard hydrants, too. For the longest time I didn't know about the set screw and dug up one hydrant to replace it. Then a contractor friend showed me the set screw and it fixed the leak in a few seconds! But your's doesn't have water running at the faucet above ground, only underground correct? That could be more ominous, like someone else mentioned - i.e. a broken pipe. Did your installer use street elbows in the drain holes at the bottom of the hydrant? If not, sand can easily get in the hydrant and make it leak.