Frost Free Yard Hydrant leaking down below

[jppa]

Hello,

I am sorry to change the subject, but instead of making a similar post, I figure I'd add to this since it already has information on my topic.

I have a frost free hydrant that was leaking (from the head at the top of the plunger rod) since I replaced the head a couple of years ago. I did some research and found there is a replaceable washer-type rubber piece at the bottom of the plunger, and wanted to unscrew the head and pull out the rod to see if the plunger washer needed replacing. The only problem is that I only had one plumber's wrench, so I couldn't secure the pole well as I tried to unscrew the head, and the pole ended up turning instead of the head. I turned the pole back to where it should have been, and moved on to making adjust the linkage.

I found out what they meant about the handle snapping shut which I never knew when I previously installed the new head, and made adjustments until the handle had a nice easy snap (it never snapped before which is likely why it leaked).

I turned on the water pump and there was no leak, but I heard a noise that sounded like water flowing even though the handle was turned off and the head was not leaking anywhere. Eventually as I feared the hole around the pipe that goes into the ground filled up with water. I tried adjusting the linkage and other parts several times, but the hole fills up every time I turn on the water pump, and if I pull up the handle the water comes out brown at first, then clear while the water continues to leak out of the bottom, and it seems like the pressure is getting weaker.

Because the hole got filled with water, the metal pipe is now looser than before, and will turn further tight (clockwise) than it used to, and can also be pulled up a little. Basically the pole is loose, but it still seems to be connected at the bottom.

I understand that I made a mistake. I am going to assume it was a really big mistake. If anyone who is experienced with this type of thing could be so kind and give me a lead on what would likely need to be done to fix this situation, I would be very grateful. I am going to assume that I have to start digging and replace or repair the pipe or connection to a pipe at the bottom of the pole.

At this point I do not know how to turn off the water supply to the hydrant, so my whole house it out of water until I fix this problem.

Thanks in advance for any advice to help me solve this problem!

 

[zzvyb6]

Hello and welcome to the Forum !

This has happened to a lot of people, so hang on. Depending on the age of the hydrant, there is a metal or plastic elbow down below that has a hose barb on the end for attaching to common 'plastic' water line. Either this has twisted off or broken off, so the line is wide open down below. Since it is common for the hole to be filled with coarse gravel or sand, it should drain down fairly quickly.

Start digging. make a hole big (wide) enough for you to work in its usually 4 to six feet down there depending on the frostline depth and the length of the hydrant. I would be surprised if there is not a inside valve or an outside valve (sometimes called a street valve) where you can shut off the water pressure to this hydrant. Look for a steel cover about 5 to six inches across with a bolt head on top. Sometimes this is a 5 sided bolt, so you will need to obtain a wrench for it. The wrench also has at one end a notched head to fit into the street valve body (which is also down below the frost line).

Once you dig deep enough, you can access the broken water line and hopefully repair the connection. Plastic water line is fairly stiff, so the trick is to use a small propane torch to soften it up. Get a NEW hose barb for the end of the hydrant and screw it back into the end of the bottom hydrant brass fitting. A plumbing supply house may have a rebuild kit to give you the new rubber stopper that you originally were trying to change. Use a new stainless steel hose clamp. Make sure the screw bolt in the hose clamp is also stainless steel. I've had a few with a stainless band but an uncoated bolt and the bolt rotten away. Before you backfill the hole, make sure the coupling is not leaking.

If you have the time, watch a few videos on YouTube on how they change the rubber stopper and the brass upper pull rod and seal.

That's all there is to it. Try again to find a water shutoff! Good luck to you. It would be nice to share your experience back here on the Forum for future readers who want to know how it was fixed and the problems you may have had.

BTW: I once shoveled out a hole only big enough for me to lay down on the ground and reach down to the water line. Unfortunately, I slid into the hole headfirst and was unable to get out by myself.

When you get the time, install an inside shutoff valve for future needs. Stones sometimes perforate a water line and they will leak a good amount until you see water bubbling out of the ground. Your well will appreciate it.

 

[hhsco]

I highly recommend using metal (i usually use brass) fittings with underground water lines. Our lines are at least 6' deep here. Those plastic ones are way more brittle and likely to get cracked as frost heaves and soil compaction occurs. STINKS to dig down that far in the winter....or the spring for that matter!

 

[jppa]

Thank you so much for your replies.

I will hopefully be digging soon to see if the problem is something that I can fix. Hopefully it is a simple part such as a hose barb as you say. I will not be able to heat the plastic with a blow torch, as I do not have access to one, so I don't know how I will be removing it if that is the problem. Perhaps some matches?

My main question right now is if the line is wide open, why does the water still come out of the head when the handle is lifted? Is it possible for the line to only be partially open?

Thanks again, and I will try to remember to post back with results if any are obtained.

 

[zzvyb6]

A hair dryer works pretty well, too. Don't melt the pipe and don't drop it into any puddles ! Water coming out may mean many things. Maybe you just loosened the elbow. Maybe it just has a hairline crack. Maybe the hose clamp snapped and the pipe is still connected but not clamped tight.

 

[hhsco]

It could very well be that the hose barb is cracked- generally if they freeze or are subject to movement the crack will occur at that joint.

I had an issue several years back on my old hand dug well (45 ft) where there was a frost-free right outside the pump house. Was losing water/pressure at an alarming rate and going through filters like crazy. Water line goes to two houses, at least 500' length. Dug it up where I knew there were joints (and at the frost free surrounded by concrete on a patio), got an acoustic guy in to find the leak, did all sorts of things. Turns out the elbow right outside the pumphouse below the frost free was cracked and was leaking the water back into the perforated well casing. So there was no surface indication of a leak, but that's where it was. 90 cent plastic barbed elbow just cracked. What a pain for a little part!

Could be something else- you'll know for sure if you dig it up! I wouldn't be surprised if you tweaked the joint/hose barb/ worm clamp when you tightened the head without securing the pipe. It's a giant pain but at least when you get down there you can plug it, fix it, or replace it and get water back to your house.

 

[jppa]

Hello again,

I dug to the base of the hydrant, and the hydrant was completely loose. I am now going to continue to dig to uncover the pipe. The hole is full of water, so I don't know if I will be able to make the fix today.

I have attempted to attach photos. Hope they show up.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Looks like you need to replace the 90 degree ell as it has a deep pit in it that is about ready to pop. Any chance that you could get solid brass fitting to go from the hydrant to your water pipe. Do you have galvanized pipe for your water supply or PVC. I am surprised that the installer used a steel 90 and a plastic reducer unless you have pvc piping. I recently went thru an agonizing version of what you are doing when I added in a new line and faucet. The pipe (PVC) has only been in service 4 years but it became very brittle and hard to work with without breaking. I tied into the old line, ran my new line and found that I had broken the pipe further in toward the existing hydrant. DUG some more exposed the break, fixed that, more leaks further toward the hydrant. I started out about 6 feet from the hydrant and ended up digging all the way to the hydrant and replacing everything from my TEE-in point to the hydrant. The pipe was so brittle that any little tugging or bending when fitting in a new connection would break the pipe. It took me 2 days (allowing for overnight glue jobs to set in the 40F temps) to fix the little area of connections so it wouldn't leak.
Then about a week later, I found one joint on my 200 foot extension line leaking, had to dig it up, put in two couplings and add some pipe as the leaking coupling was just barely stuck in the fitting due to total line shrinkage it seems to have pulled out of the coupling. I think I also may have had some bad glue although it was a new can from the store. THANKFULLY I have a backhoe for most of the digging I had to do.

 

[jppa]

It is a black plastic pipe. Here are photos:



I am assuming that the white broken plastic piece is a barb that somehow attaches to the elbow. I am going to take the whole thing to a hardware store and try to get the parts I need. I hope the plastic is not brittle like the previous message mentions.

Do I need any kind of adhesive or can this thing just be plugged in and screwed on (assuming I can get the elbow to come off).

Here's a photo of the hole in case anyone is curious:

 

[hhsco]

That's black PE pipe- standard stuff. You shouldn't have problems with it being brittle. Thin-wall pvc stinks for underground use, but your PE looks like a reasonable psi-rated pipe. Not super thick but thick enough for what your doing. When you replace the unit, I would advise filling the base of the hole with a bunch of gravel- makes it a lot easier for the frost free to drain down.
Edit: with barbs you generally don't need any kind of adhesive. Just some heat, the worm clamp, and driver to tighten it all up. You'll need some teflon tape to put a new elbow on. Good luck with that rusted sucker!