Buying Advice 30 acres and plans to build a new house - Equipment to get?

[HOPocrisy]

Sure, I've been right where you are. A little land, needs a cabin, mechanical ability and not much money.
What i bet you will find is how handy it is to have one tractor to do chores and another for
heavy work. I'm thinkiing you are already more than half way there...

I have two buddies who had Massey Ferguson 135s that lasted just about forever. Thousands and thousands or hours with no repairs at all. Both were gassers with the Continental industrial engine. A more reliable tractor would be hard to imagine and near impossible to build. You already have the Davis Loader which is a good one. But original power steering was optional on the MF, not very popular, and not all that good anyway.

What you could do is buy a modern new power steering add-on kit specifically for your Massey 135. Amazingly, they still sell them Do a Google search. Several vintage tractor parts places have them and even Amazon sells a complete nice-looking kit complete wit hoses and controls for the MF135 for $800. Hard to go wrong for twice the money.

I guess you probably know that 3pt backhoes are death traps on any tractor big enough to have automatic draft control - which includes the Massey 135. That's why you don't see them much or at all for sale new anymore.
But you are all grown up and I can't preach.... I used one myself for years - though never on a sort of lightweight 3pt like was standard on the 135. Mine only nearly got me once. I bailed out sideways just as the BH control panel punched me in the stomach on it's way to tearing up the seat.
As far as 3pt hoes go, I wouldn't. But there is no problem with a backhoe mounted on a subframe if they make a subframe to fit the 135 that would be safe and handy. Also, if you find one be sure to get it with a PTO-drive pump & reservoir. The MF's feeble 4.5 GPM hydraulic pump won't run a backhoe.
And always turn

If I were doing what you are, and the MF is in decent shape I would put a power steering kit on it and call it your 3pt and loader chore tractor. Done.

Then spend some time looking around for a good old yellow pre-2000 industiral backhoe/loader. A JD310 or Case 580 would be my choice. Ask around at the maintenance dept of your local school, church, town, or utility dept.
Maintenance departments often replace on a time/depreciation schedule and some are required to offer to the public.
Those industrial backhoes run forever, are infinitely fixable, and some are even well-maintained. Parts are cheap and anyone can fix them. 10 to 20 K would buy a very nice one - but expect to spend another 2500 for new tires and batteries.
My buddy spend 12K for his 1996 2wd 310 with a 4 speed and reverser, I spent 30K for mine with cab, AC, 4wd, and powershift. Used as we do, they probably won't ever wear out.
Luck,
rScotty

This is awesome advice, I've already had the old Massey on three wheels and I don't want anymore excitement than that. It is the 4cyl Continental gasser and I've done nothing but full synthetic oil and filter change and re-connected the alternator, starts right up.
It's got loaded rear tires and I keep the 700lb 6ft land plane or 4ft box blade on the back so I cant wheelie it.
I've heard enough from your one experience to never consider a 3-point backhoe, the MF is unsafe enough without ROPS or any safety features at all.
Sounds like I'll be installing a power steering kit and looking out for a pre-2000 industrial backhoe and loader. If a steal of a deal comes by for an excavator not over 5ft wide, I'd have to think about that as well.

 

[etpm]

Thank you this is very helpful. I have seen and been interested in the Case 580. Reviewing your notes I see on Tractordata.com how this all works, the 580CK predates the 580K and 580E and looks like the CK has slower 1st gear, which makes sense for Ag work. The later models seem truly more construction machines without the standard tractor features.
I will 100% look out for a well maintained 48hP 580CK made between 1966 - 1971 with a loader and a hoe on it. No fancy electronics, plenty of power, relatively inexpensive. and my #1 need right now, digs holes in the ground!

My 580CK has a shuttle shift and this feature is very handy, especially if you are moving a lot of dirt. The way my tractor is set up there is a torque converter (I think) that feeds a regular geared transmission. To go from forward to reverse and then back to forward only requires moving a lever on the steering column. No clutching or transmission lever needed. Anyway, like I said, this feature is really handy. I am so glad my machine has this feature. If you can get this feature you should, especially if you need to shift dirt from one place to another.
Eric

 

[HOPocrisy]

I went the other way. "Man's got to know his limitations". Mile long gravel driveway - house foundation - septic system - well. I went with speciality contractors. Particularly important since my house is a Pan Abode. Precut cedar timber house. You miss it on the foundation - you can not build the house.

We ( wife, son and I ) built the house - entirely - ourselves. Saved enough to pay for all the speciality work.

You did the timberframe with wooden joinery? Beautiful stuff right there, I've got books, a chain mortiser and dreams. But am going with a slab 2x6 barndo for my new house, TF was the first thought but I can do that on the outbuildings. It was the precision required that scared me a bit off from TF, for my primary home at least. Awesome on building with your family, that's wonderful.

 

[mike69440]

"If I were doing what you are, and the MF is in decent shape I would put a power steering kit on it and call it your 3pt and loader chore tractor. Done.

Then spend some time looking around for a good old yellow pre-2000 industiral backhoe/loader. A JD310 or Case 580 would be my choice. Ask around at the maintenance dept of your local school, church, town, or utility dept.
Maintenance departments often replace on a time/depreciation schedule and some are required to offer to the public.
Those industrial backhoes run forever, are infinitely fixable, and some are even well-maintained. Parts are cheap and anyone can fix them. 10 to 20 K would buy a very nice one - but expect to spend another 2500 for new tires and batteries.
My buddy spend 12K for his 1996 2wd 310 with a 4 speed and reverser, I spent 30K for mine with cab, AC, 4wd, and powershift. Used as we do, they probably won't ever wear out.
Luck,
rScotty"

A TLB does nothing well. That is why contractors who use their machines constantly, cannot make good money with them and are out of favor.
They are slow and clumsy. Do you care? They can do most anything to build a home. Remember when you swear at it, think about a shovel, pick, axe and a darft horse as the alternative. Its the one machine to have when you having just one machine. (Unlike the Shafer Beer Jingle)

 

[edgarrian]

Backhoes are nice but are limited when compared to a excavator. Much slower. Reach is limited. Limited ability to throw spoils and so on. Really the only good thing about a backhoes is the FEL capability. In the construction world they have become obsolete. Great all around machine but they dont do any one thing great.

As some who operates machinery (farm and construction) Id suggest a 308 to a 315 sized excavator with a blade. tree removal will be much easier and trail development would be a breeze.

 

[scootr]

Here is my limited experience opinion. About 18 years ago I needed to put in my own septic system if I wanted to occupy my newly built house in less than 6 months. Even though I had never even sat on a backhoe I bought a 1970s Case 580CK backhoe. My only tractor experience previous was a Ford 9N my neighbor and I bought together a couple years before. So I learned how to operate a backhoe. Then I put in the septic system and the county was very happy with it and several employees were brought out to my place so they could learn what a proper Infiltrator type septic system should look like. I also put in several ditches for water, power, and phone. I dug about 800 feet of ditches for the water, power, and phone. Then I dug out a bunch of stumps. A bunch. Then put in an extra 250 feet of driveway through the woods. Then repaired another 200 feet of road. And removed more stumps. I moved many yards of dirt and rocks. At least 8 yards of rocks and probably 30 yards of dirt. The Case 580 CK is meant to be a Tractor, Loader, Backhoe, A TLB. I could remove the backhoe but it would be a chore. Anyway, to me the Case is a beast. It is heavy and still the hoe will throw it around. I have lots of rocks and am super glad I have the thing to get the rocks out of the ditches I am digging. I also have a Yanmar YM2310 that I bought a few years ago. I keep thinking about buying a backhoe for it but I know it will only be good for digging narrow ditches of limited depth, and the rocks on my land would be a big chore for a small backhoe. It is a great machine, has a loader, and there is no way I will be getting rid of it. If I was in your position I would buy a used TLB that was plenty big enough to do the jobs you need it to do. Really plenty big enough. At the same time I WOULD NOT remove the loader from your existing tractor, it is too useful. At least the one on my small Yanmar is. Instead I would add a bunch of weight behind the rear wheels, like a ballast box, or something similar, to make the front end lighter when using the FEL. Not only does it make steering easier it also takes some load off of the front end which is good for the tractor. On my small Yanmar I can have more than 1500 pounds of weight hanging from the 3 point. I do and it makes a big difference. My Case is big enough that it is hard to maneuver in tight spaces, I always need to be aware of the hoe behind me. And it is pretty long. That's why having the Yanmar YM2310 is great. It is much smaller and the bucket most of the time is plenty big enough for what I need to move. So really, having both machines is great, the Case is big enough to easily handle the big jobs and the smaller Yanmar gets used most of the time for the rest of the stuff. You can always sell the bigger backhoe and just keep your present tractor, but I bet you won't.
Eric

Good advice. Buy, use, and resell a 50hp backhoe like Case, Ford, JD for building. Then upgrade the tractor for daily use.
...uhm, paragraphs make reading easier.

 

[EddieWalker]

Backhoes are nice but are limited when compared to a excavator. Much slower. Reach is limited. Limited ability to throw spoils and so on. Really the only good thing about a backhoes is the FEL capability. In the construction world they have become obsolete. Great all around machine but they dont do any one thing great.

As some who operates machinery (farm and construction) Id suggest a 308 to a 315 sized excavator with a blade. tree removal will be much easier and trail development would be a breeze.

I'm sure your correct for the construction world. An excavator has a huge advantage over a backhoe for digging and tree removal. But it's probably the very worse machine for moving material. If you buy an excavator, you have to buy a loader or a dump truck, or some combination of machines to carry material.

What makes a backhoe the best all around machine for a farm is it's ability to dig, remove trees, haul materials and travel over the ground at a reasonable speed. Tires are always faster and easier to travel on then tracks. But for me, the reason I like the backhoe the best is that I rarely have to get off of the seat. For big trees, I have to use a chainsaw to cut it down, but for smaller trees, I just pluck them out of the ground, turn the seat around, pick them up, and carry them to the burn pile. Nothing is faster or easier. If I need dirt to fill in the hole from the stump, I can dig it with my hoe, haul it with my front bucket, spread it out, compact it by driving over the fresh dirt, add more dirt and spread it with the bucket until it's impossible to ever know that a tree had been there.

 

[rScotty]

This is awesome advice, I've already had the old Massey on three wheels and I don't want anymore excitement than that. It is the 4cyl Continental gasser and I've done nothing but full synthetic oil and filter change and re-connected the alternator, starts right up.
It's got loaded rear tires and I keep the 700lb 6ft land plane or 4ft box blade on the back so I cant wheelie it.
I've heard enough from your one experience to never consider a 3-point backhoe, the MF is unsafe enough without ROPS or any safety features at all.
Sounds like I'll be installing a power steering kit and looking out for a pre-2000 industrial backhoe and loader. If a steal of a deal comes by for an excavator not over 5ft wide, I'd have to think about that as well.

I would love to hear that you actually went ahead and got one of those PS kit and how the power steering kit works out. Let us know. Might as well get the best one; they are all priced right - which is not surprising considering making PS kits versus the size of the market for adding PS on a 50 year old tractor.....potential customers must be pretty rare.

With PS and a more comfortable seat, I don't think there has yet been a better 3pt utility tractor than those old gas Masseys.

The Continental gas engine is wonderfully quiet and starts right up even when cold. The only downside is how the new gas affects old carb parts. My buddy ended up with copper fuel lines from tank to carb, a fuel shut off so the float bowl can be run until dry, and occasional fuel additive. Not sure if the additive was beneficial, but can't hurt.
rScotty

rScotty

 

[2manyrocks]

I would love to hear that you actually went ahead and got one of those PS kit and how the power steering kit works out. Let us know. Might as well get the best one; they are all priced right - which is not surprising considering making PS kits versus the size of the market for adding PS on a 50 year old tractor.....potential customers must be pretty rare.

With PS and a more comfortable seat, I don't think there has yet been a better 3pt utility tractor than those old gas Masseys.

The Continental gas engine is wonderfully quiet and starts right up even when cold. The only downside is how the new gas affects old carb parts. My buddy ended up with copper fuel lines from tank to carb, a fuel shut off so the float bowl can be run until dry, and occasional fuel additive. Not sure if the additive was beneficial, but can't hurt.
rScotty

rScotty

Could you explain this a bit more please? By new gas, do you mean gas that no longer has lead in it (todays nonethanol) or do you mean ethanol gas? I seem to recall ethanol gas can wreck a carb if left sitting for about 30 days, but I don't know how unleaded gas affects engines that were designed in the days of leaded gas.

 

[rScotty]

Could you explain this a bit more please? By new gas, do you mean gas that no longer has lead in it (todays nonethanol) or do you mean ethanol gas? I seem to recall ethanol gas can wreck a carb if left sitting for about 30 days, but I don't know how unleaded gas affects engines that were designed in the days of leaded gas.

Yes, confusing. My terminology is too vague. I'll elaborate.

What I am referring to may be a USA only thing...and only in some areas. By "new gas" what I meant is specifically gasoline mixed with alcohol = ethanol. The alcohol attacks - dissolves - some of plastic and rubber parts in older carbs, and also corrodes some of the metals. Then as the ethanol evaporates in the tank and bowl it compounds the problem by leaving behind the dissolved substances which clog up the carb passages and glue moving parts together. I'd say the trouble time is more like six months than 30 days....but YMMV.

As all vintage car and bike guys know, ethanol in old carbs is a hassle, but not fatal. Carbs are easily cleaned, and a lot of the replacement parts like fuel lines are alcohol resistant. Most modern gasoline engines will burn ethanol without any problem and their induction parts are all alcohol resistant. ...No problem.

As for lead vs unlead, that has to do with octane ratings, not wear. Tetra-ethyl lead is a fluid that prevents pre-ignition knocking when high performance engines use lots of spark advance for longer burn times. Industrial engines in tractors are not affected. The kind of lead - tetra-ethyl lead - used in leaded gasoline is not the kind of lead that has anything to due with engine wear.

I don't know anything about fuel formulation in Canada, just the US.
rScotty