1/2 ton diesel anyone? looks like it might be a reality before long...

[Diamondpilot]

I know another forester/wood buyer who has the Ecoboost 4x4. His onboard computer says 19mpg avg for him working. this is a country guy who works all around the country following loggers and looking at timber tracts. So he may have 30 miles on highway then creepping on dirtroads or 4x4 driving then back on roads. Then maybe in the city to collect money from the bank to pay folks.

He said straight highway driving he might get 23-24 going steady 65mph. Not as good as i once thought?

What is bad about that. My dads Eco has averaged high 18's with pulling and the lowest 3.73 gears. Its a beast but at 60 mph I have seen 26mpg. That is 5-6 mpg better than any Chevy or Dodge and it has a real gear in it able to tow something. Its rated at 11,300#.

As for diesel as a option has anyone thought about supply and demand on diesel fuel? If we flood the market with 1/2 tons running diesel I have a feeling Diesel fuel will raise in price rapidly.

Chris

 

[buickanddeere]

Sure if a diesel was a Cummins turbo diesel with just a P injection pump and a 5 speed manual trans. And if gassers had points, carbs, ran leaded fuel, sticking heat riser valves and distributed caps. Diesel fuel considerably cheaper then gasoline too. Now let's leave the 1970-1980's and get up to 2012. Last time I looked the EPA and CAFE envision a perfect world with no polluting industry or vehicles. With everybody standing on the hill sides, arm in arm singing peace songs. Then retire to a tofu buffet. Diesel fuel costs more than gasoline. Diesels are choked and loaded with high priced extras that require extra service $$$. Glow plugs, dual batteries, egr, egr cooler, particulate filter, turbo, variable waste gate, urea injection and. 30,000 psi injection system. Larger capacity oil pan, a $$$ fuel filter, trans filter and engine filter. Let's consider the extra up front cost of a diesel, how long is the payback with higher priced fuel? The direct injection gasser V8 the GM is releasing next year will devistate the diesel market if people look at the facts.

 

[CJONE]

Mileage is down because of the emissions mandates from the EPA. EGR, DPF, and DEF is ruining the fuel mileage. One member on this forum had posted about buying a new Duramax, and recently posted a review on the truck. Fuel mileage goes way down when the regen cycle happens. Same for the Dodge.
You can get massive power out of a diesel without adversely compromising the fuel mileage. There are tons of trucks out there doing it, with engines that predate the restrictive emissions junk. What's the point of running cleaner, if it takes twice the fuel?

I agree 100% the facts are the facts and no Govenment study, survey or whatever will change that. I service alot of customers that have almost all diesels from pickups to class 8 trucks and work on most of them. The mileage has gone in the crapper esp. with the big trucks. Cat engines that were getting 6-7MPG are now getting 3 MPG, thats right 3 and sometimes will have to be towed in off the job because of regen cycles not being completed and shutting down. That is a load of crap.
Our fleet of F-150's have average MPG listed and most will be in the 15-17MPG range, That is AVERAGE not high like alot brag about. There is a list of problems with the emissions crap on the new diesels where the new gas rigs keep getting more reliable and better mileage and power. I hope the MFG's can get the new diesels sorted out but they sure don't seem to have a handle on it yet from what I see daily. CJ

 

[CJONE]

if people look at the facts.[/QUOTE]

That right there is the key statement. Alot are blinded by brand loyalty, alot by sales B/S and a few are looking at the facts and are not swayed by other peoples opinions. I try my best to be like that and only listen to people like that. That keeps getting harder. CJ

 

[buickanddeere]

Isn't there a heavy truck manufacture out there selling "glider kits"? That is a complete except no engine. Truck purchasers then drop in thier own long block pre-2007 diesel engine.

 

[clemsonfor]

One would think if it was viable Toyota would start selling it's diesels here. After all they make the Hilux (similar to a Tacoma) with a 3l 170hp/ 250 lb/ft engine for Europe that gets 30mpg.

Probly not EPA legal here in the US. The same with the Jeep Liberty, it is sold in euro with a deisel but it does not meet EPA mandates so it stays over there. I heard it got 32mpg?

 

[clemsonfor]

What is bad about that. My dads Eco has averaged high 18's with pulling and the lowest 3.73 gears. Its a beast but at 60 mph I have seen 26mpg. That is 5-6 mpg better than any Chevy or Dodge and it has a real gear in it able to tow something. Its rated at 11,300#.

As for diesel as a option has anyone thought about supply and demand on diesel fuel? If we flood the market with 1/2 tons running diesel I have a feeling Diesel fuel will raise in price rapidly.

Chris

There just a drop in the bucket, i dont think it will change much in the office type weenie truck guys, they have the cash to buy one as they want now, it wont matter. Guys like me that tow a medium boat or their tractor or some other stuff but still concerned mainly with mileage would be likely customers. Those who need a deisel to pull 12K trailers every day or once a week have them anyhow regardless of mileage, cause you have a job to do to get paid!

Food for thought, the average logging crew uses 100-125gallons/ of off road, and at least that to double that of on-road. This heavy stuff is where the bulk of fuel is used.

The

 

[lostcause]

Do diesels actually cost that much more to make though? A Jetta TDI isn't all that much more than a gas one. I think if diesels cost all that much more to make, we would see new gas compact tractors. $3-4k off a $22k machine for a gas motor would sell alot of tractors if people thought about it. I don't read about many guys having enough hours to wear out a gas motor.

i've got no clue where the cost comes from, but it's sure there when you buy one. i checked a few out for comparison. here are the msrp price increases for diesels in a few:

vw w/tdi: $2700
gm w/duramax-allison: $8400
ford w/6.7 diesel: $8000

i'm sure a part of the price is volume. i'd think mass producing would cut the price down some, but i can't imagine that much. i haven't looked too carefully at the current generation of vw tdi engines, but they must have as much crap on them as the truck diesels do. half the cylinders probably helps keep the cost down too.

i don't know what the actual cost to make is, but the injectors in the duramax are ridiculously expensive to buy. to buy new replacements is about $300 each and just a rebuild on yours is $150-$200 each. my truck even has a fuel cooler - something i'd never heard of until i saw it underneath the truck. today's diesels have so many little devices on them that the cost seems to ad up and up. i'm sure that emissions are the driving force, and the reason why your tractors don't have all those little things.

 

[hodge]

Probly not EPA legal here in the US. The same with the Jeep Liberty, it is sold in euro with a deisel but it does not meet EPA mandates so it stays over there. I heard it got 32mpg?

That's true. I have a close friend in Haiti, who has a 2011 Toyota Landcruiser diesel. It has very little emissions equipment on it, certainly no egr system, dpf, or def. It is a tank, but it will probably never cut it for the US.
Haitimedical11034.jpg picture by br549_red - Photobucket

 

[crazyal]

EU has emission standards. They aren't that far behind the US and could even be even with it once theirs are fully phased in. In the EU I don't know if you can buy a gas powered pickup.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

i still can't see it being viable. historically, going from a small block gas to a big block gas was several hundred dollars to a thousand more in cost. going to a diesel was several thousand more. then the possible addition of a heavier transmission can add a couple thousand more... i can't see any of the manufacturers making a 1/2 ton upgrade to diesel costing less than 5k-7k, and that's a huge hurdle to overcome when trying to justify a diesel.

i've yet to drive one, or even know anyone with one, but i've heard of 20+ in a 4x4 ecoboost f150. the ecoboost is about an $1100 option over a v8 (i looked it up), so i'd guess a diesel in a 1/2 ton will still be about $5k over that. let's say the fictitious 1/2 ton diesel can get 27mpg in the same 4x4 trim. at $3.50 for gas and $3.75 for diesel (pretty close to what it is here right now, and if anything a little low on the diesel price) you've got to go about 140k miles before you break even, and that's assuming fuel prices don't change, and you can get 27mpg. i didn't factor in the maintenance cost, but yeah, there's going to be a premium for oil and fuel filter changes in a diesel. probably 150k miles is closer to a break even point really, and that's making big assumptions.

My problem with the Ecoboost is that Ford won't let you put it in any F150, it only goes in certain configurations. If you want a supercab 4x4 with 8' box you can't get the ecoboost. For us we were looking for a nice half ton that we could haul some materials in and still have plenty of room behind the front seats to store tools and other items but wanted decent fuel economy. The Ecoboost seemed like a great option till I found out I can't get it in the truck configuration I need.

 

[rsewill]

Just gotta leave here and you see little fuel efficient diesel trucks and SUVs everywhere else in the world

You got that right!!!

 

[jejeosborne]

My problem with the Ecoboost is that Ford won't let you put it in any F150, it only goes in certain configurations. If you want a supercab 4x4 with 8' box you can't get the ecoboost. For us we were looking for a nice half ton that we could haul some materials in and still have plenty of room behind the front seats to store tools and other items but wanted decent fuel economy. The Ecoboost seemed like a great option till I found out I can't get it in the truck configuration I need.

Your problem doesn't exist. The ecoboost is available in all configurations with the exception of regular cab with 6.5' bed. If fact, you can get it with a regular cab and am 8' bed.

 

[lostcause]

Your problem doesn't exist. The ecoboost is available in all configurations with the exception of regular cab with 6.5' bed. If fact, you can get it with a regular cab and am 8' bed.

unless he's determined to get a certain trim level then you're right. ford does, however, only offer the ecoboost in a regular cab 8' box 4x4 f150 at the xl and xlt trim levels. the other four trim levels either don't offer the ecoboost at all, or don't offer regular cab, 8' box, or both. ah, give me the good old days when there were only three trim level packages and a less convoluted building process.

 

[TheGoose]

No, it was an in-line 4 in a Nissan Titan.

Update 2: Cummins, Feds Developing Four-Cylinder Diesel for Nissan Titan - PickupTrucks.com News

The Cummins in the 1/2 ton was either a V6 or V8, NOT an inline 4. the V6 and v8 Cummins are not used in anything at this time. the engines were a light duty designation and JUST for the Pickup/Durango. The current option they are looking at is a VM Motori 3.0L v6 that is currently available in the Jeep Grand Cherokee.



I would have to agree to this!

 

[Redneck in training]

Every car company (big three included) make small diesel pickups. In fact they make diesel for pretty much every car in production. All available everywhere except USA. I am in Australia just now. Pretty much any pickup can be had with diesel. In fact that is the engine of choice. I am renting Toyota Landcruiser diesel. Estimated mileage is about 20-24 mpg driving mostly 50 -60 mph on gravel back country gravel roads.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

unless he's determined to get a certain trim level then you're right. ford does, however, only offer the ecoboost in a regular cab 8' box 4x4 f150 at the xl and xlt trim levels. the other four trim levels either don't offer the ecoboost at all, or don't offer regular cab, 8' box, or both. ah, give me the good old days when there were only three trim level packages and a less convoluted building process.

I was looking at a supercab 8' box combo. Not a regular cab version. I did go back onto Fords site which is what wouldn't let me build the truck I wanted with the EcoBoost and now they are letting me. So it must have been a glitch when I tried it a couple months back. It makes more sense they would let you put it in any truck configuration.

 

[Soundguy]

last small diesel I had was an isuzu trooper II I liked that vehicle.. but not good for pulling...

 

[Texan4Life]

Mileage is down because of the emissions mandates from the EPA. EGR, DPF, and DEF is ruining the fuel mileage. One member on this forum had posted about buying a new Duramax, and recently posted a review on the truck. Fuel mileage goes way down when the regen cycle happens. Same for the Dodge.
You can get massive power out of a diesel without adversely compromising the fuel mileage. There are tons of trucks out there doing it, with engines that predate the restrictive emissions junk. What's the point of running cleaner, if it takes twice the fuel?

BIG +1

Kinda sad really. but thats .gov intervention for ya

Mahindra was going to release a diesel PU in the US. They had dealers (300 I think) and everything lined up ready to start makes sales. It got real close and then got shutdown. I think they were having problems passing EPA trails. ppl had spotted the unmarked vehicles road testing in the US, but that is as far as it got.

 

[jeffsw6]

I honestly think if anyone is to bring it to market it will be GM first.

GM built some demo trucks a few years ago with a smaller version of the Duramax. They weren't keeping it a secret, they showed it off at some industry conventions. There are even youtube videos and magazine articles, though they lack any hard HP/torque/MPG figures.

The reason they aren't in production is the financial meltdown. Not to steer the thread into a discussion about that, but GM just did not have the money / creditworthiness to setup production-volume manufacturing for it. Making some concept/demo vehicles for trade shows is a lot cheaper than reconfiguring a factory and putting all the logistics in place to make 100k engines a year. Good idea, bad timing.