1 yr old Cub value

[slammer]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Chuck,
You are going the most economical way to mow your lawn. Buy an elcheapo MTD and wear it out. Most seem to get 8-10 years out of them. My father in law has an old Murray rider that he paid 800.00 for and has used for 14 years. Of course you don't get the prestiege of riding a big brand name, but prestiege can be expensive. I would rather save the prestiege money to buy more tractor stuff with.
)</font>

I really don't know about that. Let's test your theory. If indeed a $1200 (todays $) tractor will last you 10 years then that is obviously the way everyone should go. But I think you need to add in repair costs and time lost to your initial price. Unless the consumer is mowing a golf course smooth lawn the spindles won't last. The thin blades that are typical on these cheap mowers will be replaced roughly twice as often. The deck itself will eventually need new wheels/rollers as these always seem to fail after 3 or 4 years. Belt pulleys, steering parts, cheap safety switches, and front hubs are all quick failures on these bottom dollar machines. I got this list from invoices in our shop. The most common problems we have experianced with bottom shelf mowers.

In closing I really think that customers will pay about 3K for their $1200 mower. I am not suggesting that everyone buy a 3K John Deere but a little extra money up front could save a consumer alot of cash over this hypothetical 10 years. Not to mention lost time, transportation costs, aggravation etc....

Food for thought guys.

Slam

 

[Chuck52]

Slowrev & Slammer,

I guess I'll see after a while. I've been using this machine to do my lawn and some adjacent field areas. The field is probably as smooth as my lawn, which isn't very! My son did me a favor and mowed some Saturday. His plan was to cut it short so he wouldn't have to repeat the favor soon. The grass he was cutting was about 8", and he plowed a few areas where there were ruts and mounds, but he was running it flat out as fast as it would go and it gave a good cut. I'm thinking I should look under the deck soon so I have a general idea what it's supposed to look like under there! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It's kinda fun to use....it has a tight turning circle and will go fast enough to make you feel like you need a seat belt when you do a 180 at speed! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My son-in-law has had an almost identical MTD for five years. He had to replace the deck belt this year. He's mowed some pretty rough areas, and is still satisfied with the thing, which is part of why I bought mine. The other reason was I had $400 in Home Despot gift cards, so I had a reason to buy there and they only had the low end John Deeres aside from the MTD units. I already knew MTD makes most of the other low end units available, so I figured I was getting their Chevrolet rather than their Caddy model. I understand the low end John Deeres are made by John Deere, but they don't look any better than the Poulans, Cub Cadets, Troy Builts, etc, made by MTD.

Chuck

.

 

[slammer]

Actually Poulan, Poulan pro, Sears Craftsman, & Husqvarna tractor were AYP products and are now actually under the umbrella of AB Electrolux. TroyBilt, Yardman, Ryobi, Yard machine, Bolens, White, and MTD are all built to the same specs with differant window dressing by MTD.
Cub Cadet is owned by MTD but still operates independantly utililizing it's own lines and tooling.
The JD 100 series IMHO is an insult to real Deere owners out there. I have lost a lot of respect for JD. They are marketing an inferior product that is Deere only in name. I understand that they (JD) were losing marketshare to the mass market tractor sales but it still bothers me that in a few years consumers are going to realize that they should have just bought a Craftsman. Almost the same mower but far lower in cost. That's just big business I guess.

Slam

 

[beenthere]

I feel (and felt) the same about Deere coming out with the 100, which is a gear and not hydrostatic. Similar to the Sabre (off colored green color). But, Deere apparently wants a share of the cheapo market. We get what we pay for, although some don't believe that and some can't afford to pay more.
Alas, I have a fellow retiree who, with his wife, have been running a good size lawn service with nothing but the Sabre Deere product since they first came out, and he says, maintenance is the key, and longevity (lots of hours) at a low cost is paying off very well for them.
There is something for everyone, and not everything is for everybody.
Again, dealer service is quite important, and re-sale value is also quite important. When you want to upgrade, the worst thing to hear is "we won't take yours in trade- period". One can go to used lots, to auctions, to yard sales, and look at the ads - certain brands just don't carry their value or even a good share of their new price beyond the dealers lot.

My neighbor bought a new Simplicity from a local dealer, and because he couldn't move into his new house with a big yard, he didn't take delivery (only paid for it). When the house became empty, the one moving out left his lawn mower, as he couldn't use it where he was going. The neighbor asked to cancel the delivery of the Simplicity, and was told "no, its yours". They would buy it back for 65% of what he paid for it. That dealer doesn't work at winning any friends. His Simplicity lasted just short of two years when the engine (one cylinder) went out. He has spent near new price just to get another engine back in it.
Rambling, but lots of circumstances to consider when buying just a lawn tractor. Also, just heard of an original (thought it was mid 60's) Simplicity that is still running.

 

[slowrev]

"The thin blades that are typical on these cheap mowers will be replaced roughly twice as often"

I have 2 lawnmowers that are close to 10 years old that have never had the blades replaced. Just avoid rocks and the like and keep them sharp.


"The deck itself will eventually need new wheels/rollers as these always seem to fail after 3 or 4 years"

The little wheels are less than $5.00 each.


"Belt pulleys, steering parts, cheap safety switches, and front hubs are all quick failures on these bottom dollar machines. I got this list from invoices in our shop. The most common problems we have experianced with bottom shelf mowers."

premature Belt pulley/belt/spindle failures are usually due to poor maintenance. ie dull / unbalanced blades. The steering gears in the el-cheapos appear to be the same as in in more expensive Cub/JD, etc, unless you go to the top ( expensive) models.

I can replace both spindles, idler pulleys and belt on an MTD for less than $100.00. My Gravely on the other hand costs $250 to replace the spindles and idlers, which seem to last as long as the $30.00 MTD ones.
My father in laws old Murray still has the origional deck hardware and is going ok. Looks poor because he runs into everything with it. I think he has replaced the belt one time.

I still say cheaper to run cheap. The more expensive ones cost MUCH more to repair.

Of course your opinion sounds a bit biased since you seem to be in the business /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif And I am just a consumer.

 

[slammer]

Slowrev, first let say that if you took my post to be antagonistic it was not intended to be.

Second I would like to say that I am glad you have had such good luck with your equipment. Yours is not the first such story by far that I have heard. And while I find your pricing and longevity info hard to digest I have no doubt your telling the truth.

Third, I am definately biased. I make far more money from equipment sold by the mass marketeers than I do from the equipment I and other servicing dealers sell. MTD and AYP equipment bought me a new Ford Lightning just last year. 3 years before that they bought me the house I live in now./forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think Deere and Cub and Simplicity might have bought me a cup of coffee once. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

You see I service all brands no matter where they were purchased. I turn no one away and despise the elitist dealers that do. In this day and age consumers have to buy what they can afford, if that's a wal-mart special then that just what it is. They get the same courtsey when bringing me an $800 Murrey as the guy that brings in a $15,000 Deere.

Your two or three examples of longevity determine where you stand in this discussion and I respect that. My experiance determines where I stand. I would ask only that you respect that. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif You see in some convoluted way were both right.

Slam

 

[beenthere]

Great to hear peoples opinions, and not so great when they get hashed about beyond just someone else's opinions. I try (don't always succeed) to give my opinion for the benefit of all the possible readers, and at the same time avoid stepping on anyones' toes. Not always possible, but sometimes an opinion just needs another side of the story.

Hopefully no one takes someone's opinion as a remark against them, although feelings are involved, and feelings get buffed a bit. A lot more fun reading about the various ways of doing things, and they sure are not all the way I do them. That is what makes the world go round.

And my opinions are just that - mine. Take em' with a grain of salt. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (If we could all just have the careful and kind way of saying sage things as does Bird /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif He has such talent.)

 

[slowrev]

Slammer,
Sorry if I got a bit overwrought on this subject. Maybe I took your handle a bit too literally /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I do get a bit upset when people think that only the most expensive stuff is ok to have. I do take good care of my equipment and therefore it lasts well. Perhaps my outlook on life if a bit different than some others, but I like to stay out of debt and instead of buying a $3,000 riding mower I prefer to buy a 1,000 mower and 2,000 worth of other toys...err tools.

I would like to see a good unbiased evaluation of cost to own/operate the various levels and brands of lawn equipment/ Tractors though. Do you know if any exists ?

I am currently finishing up on refurbishing a junk MTD rider. New paint, pulleys, spindles, blades, front axle bushings, etc and put a Cast iron sleeve engine on it. Should have about $300.00 in in and will be good for at least 5 years.

Disagree with me if you desire, that is part of this boards function. And again I apoligize if I came across too antagonistic, but thanks for your viewpoint, it would be boring if we all agreed.

 

[slammer]

Slowrev, glad we got that settled. I don't know of any cost effect study. I would be interested in seeing one myself.

Fellow dealers will jump me for this but a good compromise to the whole "expensive-vs-cheap" thing is good, quality re-furbished equipment. New top shelf mowers are getting to be like cars in that their is marked depreciation as soon as you buy it. And there are people who for whatever reason buy a new mower every 3-5 years. These can typically be had very reasonably. Heres an example. On another thread we have been discussing the Simplicity Lancer. The Lancer sells for an average price of $3400. A friend recently picked one up for $1200. It was a 2002 model. That was IMHO a bargain. For the cost of a Murrey or MTD that feller now has a very nice mower that should give him 15 years of service with proper care.

All of the above aside, good luck on your project, if you need anything let me know. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Slam

 

[Dutch445]

AYP, MTD, Deere,
Slammer, you said that Cub Cadet , which is owned by MTD, actually is still building the tractors outside of MTD manufacturing? Are you also saying MTD hasn't changed specs and design since they bought Cub?

I had heard of AYP as being a larger manufacturer, but wasn't aware of the new company's name. Who else builds machines, other than AYP, MTD, and Deere?


/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif