110v welder and the 3/8 bend test

[roadhunter]

Ultimately we all needed this to move on. Not sure how it got so big and out of control but it seems pretty ridiculous looking back. Hopefully we have all learned something form this. I know I have and I mean beyond just the welder test. Ultimately I would also like to see Shield Arc come back to this forum and hopefully all of our people skills have improved to a point where we can have a productive welding forum again without all the fighting and arguing. We need input from professionals and from hobbyist and everything in between as we can all offer a different perspective and background to the conversation.

I know I played a role in the arguing and bickering and take full responsibility for my actions and involvement.

So if you have a moment drop a line to CEP over on WW and let him know you'd like to see him back.

 

[Sodo]

A pro's success welding 3/8" with 120v was necessary to legalize normal people welding 1/4". Surprised it took so long and glad it finally happened, hopefully TBN can learn from another forum. Kudos to Roadhunter for enabling it, that was above & beyond the call of duty.

 

[muddstopper]

Sodo, you still need to keep this in proper perspective. The technology is really just now becoming available to allow this type of welding to become possible. Even with the new technology, it took a experience welder using proper prep procedures and proper power supply to accomplish the weld. I still say it is irresponsible to suggest that just anybody with any old 120v machine can perform bend test passable welds with their cheap HF welder. Nothing wrong with discussing proper procedures required to produce similar results. Just dont be going around saying, Oh yea, sure you can weld 1/4-3/8 steel with your little machine. Any experience welder will probably know the difficulty to achieve success, but if one needs to ask if they can do something, chances are they dont have the required skill level to pull it off. Making it sound easier that it is and anybody can do it, does more harm than good. Saying it can be done"IF" you have a 30amp breaker to plug into, and grind and bevel the work, and preheat, and make multiple passes, and have one of the newer inverter machines capable of provideing the required power needed to perform the weldment, yea then you might be able to make a decent weld with your 120v machine, then I have no problem suggesting a low voltage machine can safely be used to weld thicker metals.

 

[muddstopper]

Seems you think you get to decide for everybody what is the correct way to do things, No sense trying to be reasonable with you, you wont have it. I'll just put you back on ignore before we get this thread locked like all the others.

 

[downsizingnow48]

The WW folks are continuing the discussion that Roadhunter started. It is very interesting. I am sorry to reference another forum, probably not quite the right thing to do, but it is directly pertinent to this thread.

110v Mig welding 1/4 steel - Page 11

 

[muddstopper]

The WW folks are continuing the discussion that Roadhunter started. It is very interesting. I am sorry to reference another forum, probably not quite the right thing to do, but it is directly pertinent to this thread.

110v Mig welding 1/4 steel - Page 11

Yep, I think this one thing sums it up pretty well

I'm sure the guys who really don't want this to be so will latch onto the bend test and ignore all the rest of the information that doesn't support their argument that small 110v migs can do thick material. The truth is that the tests show that even under the best conditions the machine really isn't suited to do thick material and be trusted to make solid welds. Used within it's limits, say 1/8" to 3/16" ( depending on the skill of the user) it looks to be fine.

 

[Sodo]

Sodo, you still need to keep this in proper perspective. The technology is really just now becoming available to allow this type of welding to become possible.

Just now becoming possible? Techniques for welding thicker materials have been pretty much the same since he beginning of electric welding. The only thing that has changed is that a Pro has done it on the internet.

And some fellers worry that those 120v weldors are gonna get all uppity now.

 

[MikePA]

Threads that need pruned or have to be closed, regardless of forum or topic, have several common characteristics.

1. One or two individuals who believe their opinion is the only valid one.
2. They state their opinion.
3. If anyone disagrees, they respond, with a restatement of their original post, thinking anyone who disagrees with them must not have understood them.
4. This cycle continues, with the original poster usually becoming more sarcastic, after all, who could disagree with them? They're right.
5. Thread pruned.
6. Thread closed.
7. Individuals either start a new thread on the same topic, or hijack other threads, to continue making their points. So many ignorant people, so little time.
8. Go to Step 3.

 

[muddstopper]

Just to clear up my statement of newer technologies. Electric arc welding has been around since the mid to late 1800's. About 100years give or take a few billion. Inverter technology for welders wasnt used until about 1977, about 37 years ago. Igbt technology wasnt applied to welding machines until sometime in the 1980. Since the introduction of IGBT there has been at least 3 generations of advancement, with the current 3rd generation coming on the market in 2012, just 2 years ago. Some welding manufacturers are still using 2nd generation technology and some of the cheaper machines are still built using 1st generation technology. I think it is safe to say that technology has been improving for over 100years and the current, more efficient innovations, coming in less than 2 years ago. Technology changes, things improve and doing so allows for procedures and capabilities to change. While first generation IGBT machines where prone to failures, the newer technology should prove to be more reliable. Will they prove to be as reliable as the old transformer machines of the early 1900's? you might have to wait another 100years to get an answer to that question.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

A pro's success welding 3/8" with 120v was necessary to legalize normal people welding 1/4". Surprised it took so long and glad it finally happened, hopefully TBN can learn from another forum. Kudos to Roadhunter for enabling it, that was above & beyond the call of duty.

Sodo,
Be very careful about ignoring the final test, the etch test. This is a warning, or a cautionary point that should make a reasonable person hesitate. The penetration was not there. The base metal was not deeply fused. While I am sure it definitely fused to an extent, it was not an indication that it was properly welded. You can have a weld that survives if it is slowly bent and carefully handled during the test. Even a slab of solid granite will flex considerably if slowly bent, but if you strike it, it will not deform at all. It will simply shatter. The hammer break test revealed that the metal popped loose at the surface of the weld. It did not exhibit normal signs of a proper weld that failed under severe stress. RAther this would simulate the type of failure that you could expect after a trailer bounces down the road under load after a few miles of potholes. You have only a small amount of blending of the metal if any. Now this can seem strong. In fact glue can seem strong in certain situations holding metal together. Brazing is certainly better than glue. I've passed 1/4" bend tests with brazing...both ways, bend it one way, and then hammer it flat and bend it the other way. And brazing does not fuze the metal, but it is not considered strong enough for repeated stress loads in most cases. A bend test is a good indicator of weld strength and it's capability to deform, but it does not indicate it's ability to handle shock or other directional tests.