110v welder and the 3/8 bend test

[BAP]

Threads that need pruned or have to be closed, regardless of forum or topic, have several common characteristics.

1. One or two individuals who believe their opinion is the only valid one.
2. They state their opinion.
3. If anyone disagrees, they respond, with a restatement of their original post, thinking anyone who disagrees with them must not have understood them.
4. This cycle continues, with the original poster usually becoming more sarcastic, after all, who could disagree with them? They're right.
5. Thread pruned.
6. Thread closed.
7. Individuals either start a new thread on the same topic, or hijack other threads, to continue making their points. So many ignorant people, so little time.
8. Go to Step 3.

Well stated, too many people ruin the learning experiences of too many forums.

 

[aczlan]

A pro's success welding 3/8" with 120v was necessary to legalize normal people welding 1/4". Surprised it took so long and glad it finally happened, hopefully TBN can learn from another forum. Kudos to Roadhunter for enabling it, that was above & beyond the call of duty.

Might want to go and see the results in the T joing with the etch test as Mark pointed out.
From that thread:

in other words, now you have used this machine, how would you write a recommendation for it's use and limitations, min/max etc?

I'd say, don't leave any stones unturned. Proper joint prep, pre-heat, small stringers, and poor the coals to every weld.
If my life depended on it, I wouldn't weld anything thicker than 3/16”.

Aaron Z

 

[roadhunter]

Might want to go and see the results in the T joing with the etch test as Mark pointed out.
From that thread:


Aaron Z

It is interesting but as they mentioned they have been surprised at the results from larger machines as well. I believe the hammer test demonstrated that it was in line with other processes and machines. 15 blows I believe. Which put it as middle of the road for strength. Here is the list.
6013 = 3-blows
6011 = 8-blows
7014 = 10-blows
6010 5P-Plus = 10-blows
Tig = 13-blows
7018 (cold) = 18-blows
7018 (hot) = 23- blows
L-56 Mig wire = 29-blows

 

[aczlan]

It is interesting but as they mentioned they have been surprised at the results from larger machines as well. I believe the hammer test demonstrated that it was in line with other processes and machines. 15 blows I believe. Which put it as middle of the road for strength.

I saw that, I also the lack of penetration on the T joint weld and I have personally seen how poorly it worked (for myself, an inexperienced welder using a Miller 211 on 120V) to weld a piece of 3/16 to a much thinner piece of metal in a T joint (I was welding on a stake pocket).
The weld looked nice, I had a heat pattern on the back of the thinner piece but it fell off the first time I really reefed on it.

Aaron Z

 

[muddstopper]

I dont know Road, It was hard to tell from the pics, but when the piece broke under the hammer blows, it didnt appear to me to pull any of the base metal away. It looked to be almost all weld. This suggests lack of penetration. I was looking at the miller website of some mig fillet welds and the pic they showed of to low amp looked much like the sections that Sheild did with his etch test. Again, I am only looking at pics, not the same as looking in person. Hammer blows are subjective, it depends on the person swinging the hammer and how big a hammer they are using. I have knocked off old welds that had held for years with a hammer with less blows. This usually angle iron on a piece of metal I am recycling into another project and I have no ideal of the process used to make the original welds, or who did the welding. I guess I dont know exactly how hammer testing gives more than a best guess of strong welds.

 

[MossRoad]

It something isn't it? You take your time, make what looks like a great weld. You stand back and admire your work, put it in production and a couple cycles through and BOOM! off it pops. Really, really, really makes you think about getting under, on or in front of anything you built yourself!

 

[roadhunter]

I saw that, I also the lack of penetration on the T joint weld and I have personally seen how poorly it worked (for myself, an inexperienced welder using a Miller 211 on 120V) to weld a piece of 3/16 to a much thinner piece of metal in a T joint (I was welding on a stake pocket).
The weld looked nice, I had a heat pattern on the back of the thinner piece but it fell off the first time I really reefed on it.

Aaron Z

Interesting. I would have expected the Miller would have been able to weld 3/16 to thinner material in one pass pretty easily. I went and looked it's specifications and was surprised, specifically this part.
Millermatic 211 Auto-Set with MVP - MIG Wire Welder - GMAW - Miller Welding

Rated Output
150 Amps at 23.5 VDC, 30% duty cycle (230 V)

90 Amps at 20 VDC, 20% duty cycle (120 V)

Compare that to the Everlast 140
Power i-MIG 140E - MIG Welders | Everlast Generators

135A/21V @ 35% Duty Cycle/40ｺ C
100A/19.5V @ 35% Duty Cycle/40ｺ C
85A/18.3V @ 100% Duty Cycle/40ｺ C

 

[downsizingnow48]

+1 on under, on, in front of. As in, don't do it. I've never had anything break - o/a and stick - still, I generally only weld stuff where the worst that can happen is the piece falls on the ground. Still getting used to my new MM211. I think I might do some of those cut and etch tests just to see what is going on. If a good looking weld can trick SA I know for sure it can trick me.

 

[roadhunter]

I think the results worked out perfectly and at least I don't have any doubts as to their capability after looking at the results. It worked out perfectly for everyone because the results were mixed. It passed the bend test which is a huge accomplishment and did alright in the hammer test but also showed signs of lacking penetration and the etching confirmed this.

In the end we know that these type welders are not to be used for critical welds thicker than 3/16 per CEP/Shield Arc's recommendation with some common sense they still have many applications. That is why they are one of if not the the most popular welder segments in terms of sales #'s. But I think in the end we all knew that nobody was suggesting using it for a critical/life threatening welds on thick material or for example building a heavy duty trailer.

To be honest I was impressed with how much time CEP spent and was impressed that he passed the bend test but the most surprising thing I learned from this testing was how weak so many of the 230v mig welders are, my Miller included included. Many of those machines have a rated output that is barely better than this Everlast 140. I have a Miller 175 and it has less rated output compared to the Everlast. I'm going to line them up and compare side by side before I pass judgement. But I will say if the loser is blue it's going on e-bay and I will be getting something larger.

 

[muddstopper]

Road, I think if you look again at the specs, you will see the miller 90amp@20v 20% duty cycle is with a 20amp imput. At 30Amp imput, I suspect better numbers. I looked for those numbers on the everlast, but it wasnt in the specs. Maybe if you ever get your machine back from Shield, you can fill in that blank for us. Right now i dont know if we are comparing apple to apple or apples to oranges.

Just for info, I have the blue 175 also, but I already knew i wanted a bigger machine, its just that now I am starting to understand why.