12' Flex Wing Cutters, what have you had success with?

[ShowroomShine]

Looking at a 12' flex wing cutter, new or used. I'm seeing Ironcraft, Bush Wacker, Land Pride, used Woods, and Rhino on the market for the $10-15K price point. I have Rhino equipment now but from the videos I've seen it looks like it does not distribute the grass as well as the Land Pride. Bush Wacker for the money seems like a solid mower, but not sure about the brand.

What 12' mowers do you have and have had suceess with?

 

[cathy liebchen]

We love the LP 2512

 

[workinonit]

Are you looking for a bush hog or a finish mower? If it's a bush hog, all I can say is that all of the highway grass contractors around here use either Bush Hog brand or Frontier(whatever manufacturer that may be at the time). If those guys are using it I can too. I have a Frontier FM that is a Befco. It's been the best implement I've ever owned. Mine is 21'

 

[EddieWalker]

I bought a Titan 1912 batwing just over two years ago. Since then, they lost a court case and where forced to change their name to Iron Craft. It has a 5 foot middle deck, and the wings are 4 feet, which gives me 6 inches of overlap. I don't know if that's normal with all 12 foot batwings, but I like how clean it cuts. I also like how nice it follows the contour of the land. It's rated for 2 inch material, but I mostly just cut grass and weeds with it. Some of it can be over the hood of my tractor, and it all looks great after it's been cut.

I'm using a Massey Ferguson 4707 tractor with 70 hp at the engine. I forget what the PTO hp is, but guessing it's around 60hp. Maybe 58hp, that kind of sounds right to me. It has plenty of power. I normally cut at 2.3 mph. Any faster and I'm bouncing around in my seat, and the trees are coming at me faster then I can maneuver around them.

About three weeks ago, one of the gear boxes on the wing blew up on me. I was mowing a grassy area near a big oak tree and I hit some branches. Nothing big, just one inch stuff. It sounded normal enough when I mowed over the branch, but then sound didn't end. Kind of a banging sound. When I looked back to see why it was still making that sound, I realized that the mower wasn't cutting on that side, and there was a bunch of oil on the deck. For whatever reason, the gears came apart and blew out the rear seal of the gear box.

I sent an email to my dealer that Saturday evening, and got a reply Sunday morning. Then a phone call Monday morning. His big concern was if I ran it without oil in it. I didn't. I took pictures, and took off the top of the gear box to see what had happened, and there was still a lot of oil in the gear box. He said that was perfect for a Warrantee Claim. He took care of it and the gear box was there just over two weeks later. They offered to replace it if I brought the mower in, but I didn't want to do that, so I took off the gear box and brought it to them. They gave me the brand new gear box, and I was out the door. No charge, no questions, no paperwork. They just handed it to me. Super easy!!!!

I put it back together and filmed some video of it mowing one of my fields the next day. I don't know why it failed, but I'm very happy with the way they took care of it.

Another thing that I like about it is just the one hydraulic line. I have two remotes, so I could handle two hoses, but just having one hose to deal with just seems easier to me.

I'm still on my original blades. The cut is still good. I own 68 acres, and I'm mowing about a quarter of it 2 to three times a year. My goal is three times, but I get distracted with other projects and there's never enough time to do everything.

I looked at some other brands and felt that most of the 12 foot batwings where all extremely light duty. Then there was a big jump in price for the few heavy duty ones out there, like the Rhino. That seemed to be the strongest one I looked at, but the price was more then I wanted to deal with. I paid $13,000 for mine.

I also thought about how strong it needed to be to maintain the land, compared to the first time it's mowed. After the first cutting, it's just grass after that. No saplings, no big weeds, nothing to really justify a heavy duty cutter.

With the AC in the tractor, I mow in the afternoons when it's too hot to be outdoors. I can get into the tractor, totally worn out and over heated, and cool down while mowing. A couple hours later, when it's time for dinner, I'm relaxed and comfortable when I get back to the house.

 

[rockinbbar]

Had a Woods BW12, but not for long. Maybe a year and a half. Worst cutter I've ever had...sold it for half of what I paid for it when it still had remaining warranty. Wing hinges were so tight, and had no way to lube them, that the wings wouldn't work half the time. Wasted lots of time cussing that machine.
Then I got a Modern Ag 12' Viper. It cuts clean, and has a high blade tip speed, as well as having two of the 3 decks rotate one direction, and the other rotates the opposite direction, giving a cleaner cut. The Mod Ag Predator is the same cutter, but cheaper because all 3 rotate the same direction.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Viper. Even though I don't cut brush with it, I have had the splitter gear box fail, and both wing gear boxes fail, as well as having wing hydraulic cylinders both replaced, one side was replaced twice. I call it my FrankenCutter because so many parts have been replaced.

I attribute the part failures to cheap Chinese chit. Gear boxes and hyd cylinders are all cheap Chinese crap.... But to be fair, ALL rotary cutters in this class have cheap Chinee crap gear boxes and other parts, It's just where we are now.

When that Viper is running, it cuts great. I run it with a PowerStar 75 New Holland.

I am in the Ag Service business, as well as having my own ranch where I use all my equipment, and probably put more hours on tractors and cutters than your avg Joe.

Woods, while I'll never have another BW12 cutter, has clearly hit a home run with my Woods BW180XHD... Had that cutter for more than 10 years, and DO cut heavy brush with it. It has exceeded my expectations. It was engineered right, and built right.

 

[rockinbbar]

Another interesting factoid about 12' cutters is the...

Land Pride RC2512

Titan 1912 and Iron Craft 2512

Modern Ag Predator and Viper 12' cutters

And the older, no longer made Bush Hog 2212 are the same deck and blueprint pattern.

Bush Hog engineered it first, then I reckon the patent ran out, and Land Pride as well as Modern Ag copied the cutter. Only a few miner differences in the 3 cutters. (Probably the most obvious is the galvanized dipped decks on the Modern Ag cutters.

 

[EddieWalker]

I didn't mention that my Titan/Iron Craft also has the one wing that rotates opposite of the other two. I thought they all did that, but maybe it's only with some brands?

I was cutting with it after work yesterday and got it up to 3mph. To me, that's really moving fast, and not normal at all. It was a really flat, straight area, so I comfortable with that speed. It still cuts great when going that fast, but mostly I was at 2.3 mph, and cutting way too much goat weed. That stuff went from just starting to show up, to being everywhere, and super thick, in just a few weeks!!!!

 

[rockinbbar]

I didn't mention that my Titan/Iron Craft also has the one wing that rotates opposite of the other two. I thought they all did that, but maybe it's only with some brands?

Not so much the brand but the gear boxes.

The ones that all spin the same way can be converted by changing out that one gear box on the wing to a gearbox that spins the opposite direction.

Be careful buying blades too... LOL.

My dealer told me about a guy who kept complaining about the horrible cut he was getting, and when he brought it in, he'd replaced all the blades with the same blade, and the wing spinning the opposite direction was spinning the dull side of the blade into the cut...

 

[EddieWalker]

It shouldn't be a problem buying the right blades. Iron Craft only seems to sell them through the dealer you bought it from. I could probably go to another dealer, but it doesn't look like I can buy them online.

I just got an email from Messick's with Iron Craft stuff for sale, but when I looked at their website, I couldn't find any parts for Iron Craft attachments. I probably don't need new blades for another couple of years, they are holding up really well. I just like to look online for stuff and find the best place to get them.

 

[rockinbbar]

It shouldn't be a problem buying the right blades. Iron Craft only seems to sell them through the dealer you bought it from. I could probably go to another dealer, but it doesn't look like I can buy them online.

I just got an email from Messick's with Iron Craft stuff for sale, but when I looked at their website, I couldn't find any parts for Iron Craft attachments. I probably don't need new blades for another couple of years, they are holding up really well. I just like to look online for stuff and find the best place to get them.

That guy didn't even know the cutter spun that way. He just bought 4 wing blades and 2 center blades.

I think he's wiser now.

 

[rutwad]

This isn't an exact comparison but I had a Bush Hog 1812. Now I have a Rhino TS10. I think my Bush Hog left a cleaner cut that the Rhino. But that's comparing a 12 ft to a 10 ft

 

[KenBike]

Have a Woods BW12 for the last 3 years. Pull it with a Kubota L6060 and so far no issues or problems.
As someone noted the wing hinges are tite and no grease points. I store my mower in a shed so it does not see rain and have no issues with the wings not coming down.

Looked at Bush Hog, Rhino and Woods and liked the build quality the best.

 

[EddieWalker]

I made another video mowing with my 12 foot batwing. It's been two years, and I'm still amazed at how nice it cuts!!!

 

[deserteagle71]

I made another video mowing with my 12 foot batwing. It's been two years, and I'm still amazed at how nice it cuts!!!

But it looks like one of your PTO shafts is about to shake itself apart?

 

[japody]

I made another video mowing with my 12 foot batwing. It's been two years, and I'm still amazed at how nice it cuts!!!

I am also really pleased with the cut quality on my Ironcraft 12 ft batwing. Eddie - what camera set up do you have?

 

[hayden]

I'm seriously considering a batwing mower and this thread has been really helpful. I still have a number of questions that hopefully everyone can help with.

The terrain here in Vermont is very steep and uneven. They are nothing like Eddie's fields in his videos. I currently use a 6' cutter and it's the widest I could possibly use without excessive gouging, and even with 6' I still get a lot of gouging. So a bunch of my questions about batwings relate to operation on steep and uneven terrain.

How well do the individual mowers track and follow the terrain, and are their different arrangements of tail wheels and/or lift cylinders that are better or worse? I've just started looking at these mowers, and some seem to have two central tail wheels, where others have both central wheels plus a wing wheel. Or am I not remembering that correctly? It seems that for my needs, a tail wheel on each wing is essential.

It seems that the cylinders that lift the wings need to float when mowing? Does that mean you need remotes that have a float function? Mine don't so it might necessitate changing to one or more remotes that do have float.

How many remotes do you need? I have three, though one is more or less dedicated to the hydraulic top link.

These mowers seem to weigh in around 2500 lbs which is a lot heavier than my 6' mower. I want to be sure I don't end up with a mower that drives my tractor on steep terrain, vs a tractor to drives the mower.

I'm using a Kubota L5740 with both wheel weights and loaded tires, so it's pretty stable. I'm also considering a larger tractor like a Massey 4700 or even 5700 series. I mow about 12 acres, but typically only once a year in the fall

 

[EddieWalker]

My 12 foot mower has three decks. The center deck is the biggest with a 5 foot mower. The side decks are both four foot mowers.

To set my deck height, I have a series of solid metal spacers that fit between the cylinder that lifts the deck. When I lower the deck, the cylinder goes to the point where it hits the spacers, and that's the lowest it will go, which is how tall everything is that I cut. Just guessing, I think I'm cutting everything to four inches.

My Massey 4707 has 2 remotes, but the Iron Craft batwing only takes one remote. When I lift it, the wheels bring it up off the ground, and then each deck raises. Usually one is faster then the other. To lower it, I just release the pressure and it all slowly lowers back down. Again, one deck is faster then the other, and sometimes it's so slow, I get out and give it a little pull to get it down. Or I just drive along and the bouncing of my roads will get it to come down.

I own 68 acres that I'm mowing 3 times a year. Out of that, over half is woods, buildings, ponds and other things that don't get mowed. I doubt that I'm actually mowing 30 acres. The 4707 and 12 foot batwing is big enough for me to do this. With my 6 foot cutter and 37 hp tractor, I was never able to get to all of it in a single year. I would do certain areas multiple times because they where where we hung out, like the pond, but other areas where lucky to get mowed every other year.

With 12 acres to mow, once a year, and already have a good sized tractor, I would look at a 10 foot batwing.

 

[rockinbbar]

I'm seriously considering a batwing mower and this thread has been really helpful. I still have a number of questions that hopefully everyone can help with.

The terrain here in Vermont is very steep and uneven. They are nothing like Eddie's fields in his videos. I currently use a 6' cutter and it's the widest I could possibly use without excessive gouging, and even with 6' I still get a lot of gouging. So a bunch of my questions about batwings relate to operation on steep and uneven terrain.

How well do the individual mowers track and follow the terrain, and are their different arrangements of tail wheels and/or lift cylinders that are better or worse? I've just started looking at these mowers, and some seem to have two central tail wheels, where others have both central wheels plus a wing wheel. Or am I not remembering that correctly? It seems that for my needs, a tail wheel on each wing is essential.

It seems that the cylinders that lift the wings need to float when mowing? Does that mean you need remotes that have a float function? Mine don't so it might necessitate changing to one or more remotes that do have float.

How many remotes do you need? I have three, though one is more or less dedicated to the hydraulic top link.

These mowers seem to weigh in around 2500 lbs which is a lot heavier than my 6' mower. I want to be sure I don't end up with a mower that drives my tractor on steep terrain, vs a tractor to drives the mower.

I'm using a Kubota L5740 with both wheel weights and loaded tires, so it's pretty stable. I'm also considering a larger tractor like a Massey 4700 or even 5700 series. I mow about 12 acres, but typically only once a year in the fall

The lighter batwing cutters will mostly have only 2 center axle wheels, but the heavy cutters will have 4 wheels to handle the weight. 2500-3500 pounds is pretty light, and most only have 2 center wheels.

Your wings are mostly controlled by hydraulics to raise and lower the wings, like to go through a gate, or narrow area, etc. ...What keeps your wings level in operation is a turnbuckle that is set to hold a level cutting area between the wings and the center deck. The wings will follow the terrain, but when on more level areas, will go back to same level as the center deck to give a smooth, level cut. You CAN use the float feature on the remote control, but the wings move more freely up and down, and some people have had that constant friction at the same point on the cylinder shaft wear some on the seals of the cylinder, or the cylinder shaft itself. I personally don't use "float" on the wings much.

A batwing cutter is pulled like a trailer, so it follows the terrain better than a 3 point setup, which is ridged to the tractor itself. So you get less gouging in un-level areas.

Both my cutters have the wing cylinders plumbed together, separate from the deck height cylinder, so I use only 2 remotes. One raises and lowers the main deck, and the other raises and lowers the wings.

I don't care much for "steep", but when I do cut steeper slopes, I cut straight up the grade, or straight down the grade when possible. Your tractor will be much more stable, and less risk of rolling that way.

For just shredding 12 acres once a year, I'm not sure I would invest in a bigger tractor, or a new batwing cutter. Might look at a dual cutter solid deck if you want to get done quicker. ( DS10.40 Pull-type Dual-spindle - Woods Equipment )

 

[Richard]

You asked about 12....so I don't qualify. I've got a 15' and to add to that, it's hydraulically powered. Given it's hydraulically powered (separate PTO pump and fully enclosed system), it could in theory (forgetting about any inherent dangers) cut with the blades vertical. There's no driveline to bind up.

Made by Alamo however, I bought this used and it was made prior to being bought by Alamo so it's branded a "Terrain King".

I've used 3-point (10') I don't think I've ever used a pull behind, like this one.

I sometimes wish I had gone with a traditional shaft drive. Blow a hose? You've got a mess. Don's ask me how I know. Still, I do like that I can drive down the road and cut the ROW which at times, dips way down....and at other places, can become pretty steep (live in hilly area). This will do all of that without blinking whereas a shaft might complain a bit more.

I have a 'speed increaser' hanging between the PTO and the hydraulic pump. It takes my 540 and multiplies it by 4 so the pump is really spinning.

What I don't know, but have wondered.... if I ever got a PTO powered generator, could I also utilize the speed increaser to tone down the engine speed while keeping generator at input speed. I don't know the ramifications, if any, of something like that BUT, it's dawned on me that if it DID work, I already have the parts to do it (other than the generator!)

No idea if they make a smaller version of this type mower (other than the side cutters that they use for ROW)

 

[hayden]

I sounds like the three mowers are in a rigid plane on mowers with only center wheels? So whatever angle the center section is at, the wings will be at the same angle? If so, that's exactly what I don't want. My terrain is uneven enough that I get a lot of scalping and gouging with a rigid 6' mower. A rigid 12' mower would only be worse.

I'm hoping for a mower where each of the three sections more or less align with the slope of the terrain below them. So if I'm along a area where the ground slops off on one side, the wing on that side will be angles gown to more closely follow that part of the mower's path. I think that means that the wings need to swing freely (within some limits), which I think means that the lift cylinder either needs to have a hydraulic float, or be connected with some linkage that allows wing movement, king of like the way a 3ph mower can move up and down with respect to the top link.

I do mow up/down the slope, but you still need to turn at the top and bottom, and there are still areas where you have to get sideways.

Re the whole "is it worth it" question, that's exactly what I'm trying to figure out. It's not a huge acreage to mow, but it's very time consuming, and takes me 4-5 days to cut right now. But I'm at a point in my life where if I can spend some $$ and make my life easier and/or more enjoyable, I'm open to it. Some of what I mow is small and particularly fussy like log landings, and probably 10 miles of trails. I would continue to mow them with the 6' mower.

As for a bigger tractor, I'll start another thread on that since it's about more than just mowing.