12 miles on the road?

Bird · Feb 17, 2006

( Thoughts? )

Bob, no one; not even Supreme Court Justices, know all the laws and regulations. Lawyers learn to research the law; both statutory and precedents. Law enforcement officers learn the laws that they enforce, and I'll bet very very few police officers are familiar with laws relating to agricultural equipment. Unfortunately, there are some officers (I hope a minority) who don't want to admit they don't know, so they'll tell you what they think the law is. And of course, in addition to the actual law, some things depend on the particular law enforcement agency or department's enforcement policies. There's no way they can enforce all the laws all the time, so some things are intentionally overlooked or not enforced. I would be very surprised in my part of the country if an officer stopped a tractor for anything unless he had reason to believe the driver was impaired or intoxicated.

Trev · Feb 18, 2006

Yeah, Bird.. I guess it *has* to come down to common sense in the end. But I suppose that if everyone exercised this unusual quality of "common sense" then there would be little need for laws or law enforecment.

I realized a long time ago that, not only didn't I know much of the law, but unless I devoted my life to the study of law, I had little in the way of resources to find out what the law says. What I've done lately is just, if I happen to bump into a LEO at some store, I'll say "You got time for a question?" Usually the reply is a smile and "Come on out to my office." (his patrol car) and we just chat.

My last question, to three LEOs, was What does the actual law say about the "open container" thing? I told them that a guy who kept getting bottles of booze for Christmas, and who didn't drink, had offered me a box full of half empty bottles of booze, but I wasn't sure it was legal to put them in the car and drive home with them. They laughed and said that's fine.. as long as you aren't taking a swig out of one of them when you go past a patrol car! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I consider myself an average, law-abiding, citizen. I try to obey the laws, when I know what they are, and try to simply exercise common sense in those situations where I don't know. But I'm always aware that if something were to happen, say there was an accident involving my tractor being on the road, or one in which I had this box of opened containers in my car, would the other guy's lawyers descend on me like vultures? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse.", as we're always told. But at the same time we all recognize, as you pointed out, that *nobody* knows all the laws.

So we're in a "Catch-22" situation. Nobody can know all the laws, but ignorance of them is NOT an excuse.

Making a complex society work is not an easy job, is it? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for your insights, as always!

oldgoat2 · Feb 18, 2006

I'll bet you've got a dozen neighbors who would be glad to haul it for free on their trailer just cause thats what neighbors do. All you need to do is ask. You might get to go to their house in a year or two and push a pile of gravel out for them as repayment /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif .

5030 · Feb 18, 2006

Jerry:

Isn't "12 miles on the road" a Johnny Cash song?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JerryG · Feb 18, 2006

Isn't "12 miles on the road" a Johnny Cash song?? 
I thought about that when it was first posted. Then decided that I wasn't sure if it was of not. Now that you bring it up, it may be. To old and to many thinks to remember. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bird · Feb 18, 2006

Bob, I would think you could probably look up most laws on the Internet. For instance, the "open container" law is section 49.031 of the Texas Penal Code, which reads as follows:

( § 49.031. POSSESSION OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE IN MOTOR
VEHICLE. (a) In this section:
(1) "Open[0] container[0]" means a bottle, can, or other
receptacle that contains any amount of alcoholic beverage and that
is open, that has been opened, that has a broken seal, or the
contents of which are partially removed.
(2) "Passenger area of a motor vehicle" means the area
of a motor vehicle designed for the seating of the operator and
passengers of the vehicle. The term does not include:
(A) a glove compartment or similar storage
container that is locked;
(B) the trunk of a vehicle; or
(C) the area behind the last upright seat of the
vehicle, if the vehicle does not have a trunk.
(3) "Public highway" means the entire width between
and immediately adjacent to the boundary lines of any public road,
street, highway, interstate, or other publicly maintained way if
any part is open for public use for the purpose of motor vehicle
travel. The term includes the right-of-way of a public highway.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person knowingly
possesses an open[0] container[0] in a passenger area of a motor vehicle
that is located on a public highway, regardless of whether the
vehicle is being operated or is stopped or parked. Possession by a
person of one or more open[0] containers[0] in a single criminal episode
is a single offense.
(c) It is an exception to the application of Subsection (b)
that at the time of the offense the defendant was a passenger in:
(1) the passenger area of a motor vehicle designed,
maintained, or used primarily for the transportation of persons for
compensation, including a bus, taxicab, or limousine; or
(2) the living quarters of a motorized house coach or
motorized house trailer, including a self-contained camper, a motor
home, or a recreational vehicle.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
(e) A peace officer charging a person with an offense under
this section, instead of taking the person before a magistrate,
shall issue to the person a written citation and notice to appear
that contains the time and place the person must appear before a
magistrate, the name and address of the person charged, and the
offense charged. If the person makes a written promise to appear
before the magistrate by signing in duplicate the citation and
notice to appear issued by the officer, the officer shall release
the person.

Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 969, § 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2001.
)

Now of course, it's undoubtedly a little different in other states. I know that in some states, you go to jail or have to post bond, while in Texas the officer has to issue a citation and release you unless you are intoxicated or refuse to sign the citation.

I mentioned enforcement policies before. One example: Texas law says if you refuse to sign a citation (agreement to appear) the officer is to take you before a magistrate or to jail to post bond, but in Dallas we had a policy requiring officers to simply write "Refused" where the person's signature would have been, issue the citation and let'em go.

And then you have to consider court interpretations. One example: For over a hundred years, until January 1974, the Texas statute prohibiting the carrying of certain weapons, including pistols "on or about his person, saddlebags, or portfolio" included an exception if the person was "traveling". How far do you have to go or how long do you have to be gone to be "traveling"? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Some early cases decided if you went out of your home county, you were traveling, while some later cases decided you had to be gone from home overnight to be traveling. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

So you can understand that you can't take as fact even what an attorney tells you, since some other attorney and/or judge may decide differently. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I guess if the lawyers and/or law enforcement personnel were always right, we wouldn't need trials, would we? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I can tell you that you'll find a lot of interesting, and sometimes hilarious, reading if you visit a law library and read some of the cases that have been decided by the highest courts in your state. Prior to January 1974, in Texas, it was a felony for a man to seduce a woman under the age of 25 by promise of marriage, and then to renege on that promise, but if after prosecution began, he agreed to marry her, that stopped the prosecution, but prosecution could resume if the marriage was ended within 2 years through no fault of hers. Now I suspected there had never been anyone convicted under that statute, but I was wrong. I found quite a number of sometimes hilarious cases in a law library; some in which the guy lost and some in which he won. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

5030 · Feb 18, 2006

Bird:

Read my post and then Jerry's post (right above yours) and then reply. You must know. We are too old to remember. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LBrown59 · Feb 18, 2006

( Isn't "12 miles on the road" a Johnny Cash song?? 
I thought about that when it was first posted. Then decided that I wasn't sure if it was of not. Now that you bring it up, it may be. To old and to many thinks to remember. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )
No it was 6 days on the road.
It was not by Johnny Cash.
I have the 6 days on the road album by the original artist.

JerryG · Feb 18, 2006

Ok. Are you going to tell us who it was?

AndyM · Feb 18, 2006

No it was 6 days on the road.
It was not by Johnny Cash.
I have the 6 days on the road album by the original artist.

Since Larry doesn't remember who ORIGINALLY did the song, I'll jump in and help--

Six Days on the Road was originally done by Dave Dudley in 1963.
He also did Give Me 40 Acres and I'll Turn this Rig Around and several other "truck driving" songs.
Sawyer Brown remade Six Days on the Road in the late 1990's.

Dave Dudley and Sawyer Brown are the two most popular versions...
HOWEVER, Johnny Cash DID do the song, in 1970, on the album "The Johnny Cash Show".
So Larry is half right and Flip wins the prize for remembering the Johnny Cash version! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

12 miles on the road would make a good song about driving from one farm to another on a tractor... I just have to figure out the melody! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif