120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results

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   / 120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results #101  
Actually I think it was 5 additional for a total of 6. I may have miscounted. You should not try to weld a single pass even with larger machines. With stick or tig your pass really shouldn't be any thicker than your filler. With Mig it is different, but when welding multipass, you shouldn't put more than about 1/8" down at a time with a small unit or you are just cold lapping metal down. I wouldn't anyway. Even larger units is a good idea to make 3-5 passes. Now with spray, lay away.
I spray with my MIGmaster 250 all the time up to 3/8" fillet.
 
   / 120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results #102  
60 likely won't do - check this manual (if yours looks like this) page 6

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im315.pdf

That is the same welder I have. It looks like I can go up to 75 amps on the breaker. My welder sets next to the fuse panel and is currently wired using #6 wire, so I guess I can just throw in a bigger breaker when I wire in the breaker box. My shop wasnt wired right when it was built. One fuse for all the 110v outlets, one for all the lights, and one 220v oultlet. Right now, my 2 welders, plasma cutter and Monarch lathe share a outlet. I am always unplugging one and plugging in something else. My lathe needs a 50amp breaker and I plan on putting it on its own circuit already. Not sure I want to use a 75amp breaker on the mig or the plasma as they would still be sharing a outlet with the big welder. Not sure how I am going to get around that part. I guess the mig and plasma can share the 50amp outlet, but I sure dont think I could run the big welder and either the mig, plasma, or lathe at the same time. Be hard for one person to do so anyways. Stinger in each hand, LOL. Another problem is I only have a 100amp main power supply feeding the whole shop. Hasnt been a problem before, but I never run any two of the big power users at the same time. Now run the drill press and let the air compressor come on and its to the panel to swap fuses. My outlets have 30amp fuses, not 15 or 20's. Compressor will be getting its own breaker as well.

Another thing that makes me wonder is that I have 127v on each leg going into the shop panel. That should be 254v combined instead of 220v. I talked to the power company about it and they said that the reason the Volts are high is because I live really close to the power substation and because of voltage drop over long distances, it has to be high at the first of the run so that the folks at the end of the run arent to low. Kind of makes sense I guess, but we blow a lot of light bulbs.
 
   / 120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results #104  
That is the same welder I have. It looks like I can go up to 75 amps on the breaker. My welder sets next to the fuse panel and is currently wired using #6 wire, so I guess I can just throw in a bigger breaker when I wire in the breaker box. My shop wasnt wired right when it was built. One fuse for all the 110v outlets, one for all the lights, and one 220v oultlet. Right now, my 2 welders, plasma cutter and Monarch lathe share a outlet. I am always unplugging one and plugging in something else. My lathe needs a 50amp breaker and I plan on putting it on its own circuit already. Not sure I want to use a 75amp breaker on the mig or the plasma as they would still be sharing a outlet with the big welder. Not sure how I am going to get around that part. I guess the mig and plasma can share the 50amp outlet, but I sure dont think I could run the big welder and either the mig, plasma, or lathe at the same time. Be hard for one person to do so anyways. Stinger in each hand, LOL. Another problem is I only have a 100amp main power supply feeding the whole shop. Hasnt been a problem before, but I never run any two of the big power users at the same time. Now run the drill press and let the air compressor come on and its to the panel to swap fuses. My outlets have 30amp fuses, not 15 or 20's. Compressor will be getting its own breaker as well.

Another thing that makes me wonder is that I have 127v on each leg going into the shop panel. That should be 254v combined instead of 220v. I talked to the power company about it and they said that the reason the Volts are high is because I live really close to the power substation and because of voltage drop over long distances, it has to be high at the first of the run so that the folks at the end of the run arent to low. Kind of makes sense I guess, but we blow a lot of light bulbs.

That's a nice machine :)
I have the same power issue - only 100 amps to the shop.
Plasma - 70 amps
Lights - 20 amps
Compressor - 30 amps
I see an issue :D

Fortunately the big Airco doesn't need the compressor for anything.

I have higher voltage too - my mig runs a little hotter that way, but I just turn it down a little.
 
   / 120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results #105  
Actually I think it was 5 additional for a total of 6. I may have miscounted. You should not try to weld a single pass even with larger machines. With stick or tig your pass really shouldn't be any thicker than your filler. With Mig it is different, but when welding multipass, you shouldn't put more than about 1/8" down at a time with a small unit or you are just cold lapping metal down. I wouldn't anyway. Even larger units is a good idea to make 3-5 passes. Now with spray, lay away. I spray with my MIGmaster 250 all the time up to 3/8" fillet.

That is interesting but a bit paradoxical. If the main problem with 120v mig is failure to get enough heat into the base metal to bond well with the filler metal, then wouldn't going slowly, and depositing more filler and putting more energy into a smaller area tend to fuse the filler better to the base?
 
   / 120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results #106  
Mark, thanks for answering a question I did not know I had. That is one of the reasons I read these forums.

Your next task is to explain lawn mower engine power. Or maybe air compressor horsepower. :)
 
   / 120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results #107  
When welding multipass, you shouldn't put more than about 1/8" down at a time with a small unit or you are just cold lapping metal down. I wouldn't anyway. Even larger units is a good idea to make 3-5 passes.

Very interesting. Thanks for that. I thought that I needed to keep that trigger pulled to keep pouring in as much heat as possible.
 
   / 120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results #109  
That is interesting but a bit paradoxical. If the main problem with 120v mig is failure to get enough heat into the base metal to bond well with the filler metal, then wouldn't going slowly, and depositing more filler and putting more energy into a smaller area tend to fuse the filler better to the base?

No one said anything about going slowly. The idea is to move more quickly putting more "punch" into the metal to get it to fuse but in a smaller area. A larger welder can do this. Let me try to put it in laymans words. I'm no engineer...

But try to think of this scenario for a minute, and then I'll try to bring it together. Metal disappates heat right? You know that if you ever handled a frying pan. Think of which frying pan you prefer? Which one heats up faster? Which one cools down slower? Each metal conducts heat at a different rate. Cast iron, and stainless conduct it much slower and holds it longer. In welding that is something you have to think about in regards to how much amperage (heat) will be required to weld it. Now think of which burner you want to put the skillet on? Do you want to be there all day? Are you going to but a 10" cast iron skillet on a 4 inch burner set to medium low heat to fry chicken? No, you are going to get at least the 8" turn up the heat to high to get the oil up to temp as fast as you can. Can you fry chicken on a 4" burner with a 10 inch cast iron frying pan? Yes, if you like greasy chicken and it will cook slowly and you'll have to keep it on screaming red high just to keep up with the heat being drawn away by the cooling ability of the metal. And you'll have a hot spot and all sorts of issues as the chicken on the outside won't cook well...while the middle chicken is scorching. But what do you do with the 8" burner? You can turn it down to med high or even medium and it won't even be glowing good and it will still fry that chicken and it will be light, crispy and fast cooking if you do it right.

Now put that idea into welding. The larger mig is the larger burner. The smaller mig is the itty bitty 4" burner screaming on high. The metal is of course the skillet. A larger MIG likely has more inductance capability too, which is another issue which helps the puddle wet in better. The metal will draw away the heat from the weld at a constant rate. A larger MIG can come in with higher voltage and amperage and deposit a clean fast bead with a fluid puddle without having to lay down a ton of metal to build the heat because it can easily overcome the metal's ability to draw the heat away. Building extra heat is not always a good thing. It distorts and stresses metal. Just like when I was welding with the 140E. I had to go slower so the puddle would stay fluid enough to build enough heat to wash the metal in somewhat. Each pass the metal built heat, and the next weld went a little more fluid than the other one as the heat built up. But IF I was to spray arc it for instance, I am guessing I could have welded a single thin pass before the temperature on the edges of the plate reached half the temperature of the plate did with a single pass of the little 140E.

Not sure if this is making sense...but to sum it up...It has to do with the welder's ability to overcome the heat dissipation rate to an extent. The area right at the puddle will melt and stay fluid longer.

One of the other reasons you don't want to make a thicker puddle (and making a cold lapped weld which appears perfect on the surface but does not bond at the root) is that the puddle cooling rate can be too rapid especially with a smaller MIG. If the puddle does not stay fluid long enough, the silicates, other contaminates, oxides, and gas bubbles which are present in every weld get trapped, creating a porous weld. This effect is magnified if welding on rusty/painted metal, or making a second pass on top of a previous pass with signs of surface contamination like slag etc.

A larger MIG will keep the puddle fluid long enough for the "bad stuff" to float to the surface, but keep the metal from overheating at the same time.

Now with all that said, someone is going to disagree and tell me you can take down an angry elephant with a BB gun.
 
   / 120v MIG 3/8" coupon test results #110  
Mark, thanks for answering a question I did not know I had. That is one of the reasons I read these forums.

Your next task is to explain lawn mower engine power. Or maybe air compressor horsepower. :)

I can answer the lawn mower power question more than likely. I'll leave the compressor horse power questions to the resident plasma cutter potentate.
 
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