120v MIG weld on a 3/8" thick (bevel 60deg)

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

And nobody posts them.

Test plates are more useful than I thought. They get down to the nitty gritty. But you must have "spare time" to do them. Also time to sift thru for the members who actually know what they are typing.

Yep, test plates are a good way to learn what works and what doesn't (and what kinda sorta works but can get better).

As for posting welds, feel free to browse my welding (good but never perfect) over on weldingweb.
WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts

(the link is the page of my started threads)

 

[roadhunter]

road runner, nobody has ever said that there are not uses for a 110v welder. Mostly what everyone is saying is that 110v mig welders do have limitations.
As for the bend test failures, it stands to reason that if the welds cant pass the bend test, then its probably not in anyone best interest to say the welds are good enough. Stop and think about it, those weld coupons where most like made on a bench, laid flat. The easeist welding position to make a weld. Yet those welds where not strong enough to pass a bend test. I dont know about you, but when my equipment breaks, it usually isnt the flat, top part of the metal that is broken. I have to weldup the sides and sometimes underneath, and all sort of angles. Now if you cant get a weld with decent penetration welding a flat bead on top of a piece of metal, most likely, the weld is going to get even worse if done under out of position welding. Its not about 110v welders not having a use, its about using a small welder outside safe working perimeters. The same principal applies if I was to take my 220v welder to a ship yard to weld together ship hulls. Could I take my 220v machine and weld a ship together, most certainly, would my welds hold under the stress, very doubtful. Thats the whole rub with this thread, Sodo wants to convince everybody that using a machine with limited power, to weld material outside the safe and recommened perimeters of the equipment, is fine and dandy, when nobody with any real experience, nor any manufacturers of any of the small machines, nor will any certified welding instructor, would recommend or try and teach such a unsafe practice. Then to add insult to injury, Sodo isnt willing to admit he is wrong and that his insistance could be placing anyone willing to listen to him, into trying and doing something that could result in failure. Those failures, could result in personal injury or death to the enduser, and quite possibly to some other unaware bystander. If Sodo wants to continue endangering his well being and the well being of others, there isnt anything I can do about it. He certainly has already turned a deaf ear to any reasoning and wont be satisfied until everyone here agrees with his position. Those that know better wont ever agree with him. So the saga continues.

Mudd pumper, This thread is about welding with 110v welders, not arguing about 220v welders and shipyards. If you want to argue start a thread about the subject so you dont' derail this thread. If you are not going to contribute to the thread them move on.

 

[Sodo]

Thats the whole rub with this thread, Sodo wants to convince everybody that using a machine with limited power, to weld material outside the safe and recommened perimeters of the equipment, is fine and dandy

Mudd you are on a mission!

Since there may be confusion, let me 'speak' for myself. Sodo thinks members would like assistance on the TBN welding forum to use the welder that they HAVE.

Sounding like a broken record here but the 5 foot loader bucket on my Kubota is almost entirely within the mfr's stated capability of a 120v MIG, (except perhaps the cutting edge but if a guy had a propane roofing torch or weedburner). It's all 3/16 or less, with a few 1/4" brackets here and there.

It is my opinion that if members projects are smaller than my tractor's loader bucket, then a 120v MIG may be all they ever need. Advising all members to start with a 220 stick welder (in the year 2014) is not good advice for these 3 reasons, (IMHO):

1) The "learning curve" on stick welding is much much longer than with a MIG. Expect months of birdpoop.
2) With a stick welder the absolute minimum thickness a (skilled) newbie can weld is 1/8". With a MIG, 1/8" is just "easy" and even 1/16" can be learned in short order. There are many many newbie projects & repairs within 1/16" and 1/8" thickness. Newbies will get much farther along starting with a MIG, so it's a compelling machine to purchase. Also dual voltage 120/240v machines are available.
3) It can cost much more than the welder to simply GET 220v to the welding area. Sometimes, buying a 240v 10,000watt generator costs less than calling the electrician. In these cases 120v becomes compelling. But keep in mind you often need a 20A circuit, and many 120v outlets are 15A. Often "garage circuits" are 20A which covers a lot of folks. If you need to use an extension cord to get to a 20A outlet, you will get better welding performance if the cord is rated for 20A. Also note that 240v extension cords are available or can be constructed.

Maybe we can steer the topic back to "welding 3/8" test plates with 120v MIG". Looking forward to Fife's example (welded "3g" = vertical). The young fella's more mature than a lot of older folks, gives hope!

 

[Fifelaker]

I have almost an hour into this piece. I had to do the root pass in 2, stages the Lincoln shut down 1/2 way into it. the 2nd pass is 1/3 done when it shut down. Now Remember I am trying to make this work so I am grinding back and feathering the starts for better tie in. Then I have to heat it back up so it stands a chance. I have doubts but we will see. The 1/3rd stop is where it will bend so I have to do this, the root I just cleaned up while the duty cycle allowed me to start again as it stopped where it wont be bent. I will say is this was a Lincoln 256 or the equivalent I would be prepping to bend. BTW the name calling has to stop this is not grade school. We are supposedly adults, act it. Changing peoples names is childish at best foolish at worst and both wrong.

 

[FTG-05]

With all due respect if you can't see the benefit of using a 110v welder please dont post in this thread. We dont need more arguing on this subject. We have already beaten that dead horse enough. This thread is about welding with 110v welders so please don't derail the thread with stuff like this.

And the other thing I keep harping on is the simple fact that most 120 vac weldors are not going to go out and rewire their garage or shop and then go out and buy a brand new welder; they'll just make do with what they have. Follow almost any welding post over on Pirate4x4 or any other 4x4 or offroad forum and you see it all the time. People have 120 vac units and they use them - whether it's for the "right" use or not. All the posts in the world from the "experts" that state "get a 240 vac welder" isn't going to change that fact not one iota.

So, again: request for tips and tricks to mitigate the 120 vac welders known weaknesses?

Thanks,

 

[Sodo]

Fifelaker thats lame that your MIG shuts down after such a short weld. It's probably OK for welding sheetmetal though. My Miller(s) never shut down (nor the Hobart that I had 15 years ago) shut down, not even once.

Curious how long can your MIG weld (inches) at full power before shutdown?

 

[muddstopper]

Well, I see common sense will not prevail in this discussion. This thread title is welding 3/8 plate with a 110v mig welder. This thread is not about using a 110v mig welder within the recommended safe working perimeters of the equipment. If someone wants to discuss welding 3/16plate with a 110v machine, then I might be willing to deviate from what I have already said.

I did a 5 min search of unsafe welding practices and improper welds. I copied just a few links of the many pages available on this subject. Some of the links talk about people getting killed as a result of improper welding procedures, Some refer to people being maimed, and a few links are just for the benefit of the lawyer and courts that just love to jump on this type of ligitation. Folks, it your lifes, the lifes of your families, your neighbors, and the strangers that might come in contact with your decisions. The lawyers are lining up at your doors, just waiting to take everything you have worked for. Throw all this away if you want to.

Enjoy the readin. Family of 'Transformers 3' extra files suit over accident - Chicago Tribune
Damage to Pumps from Poor Upstream Pipe Welding: A Metallurgical Failure Analysis
Accident Reconstruction Expert - Metallurgical Expert Witness - Dalder Materials Consulting Edward Dalder
Accident Reconstruction Expert - Metallurgical Expert Witness - Dalder Materials Consulting Edward Dalder
Failure Analysis of an ICC Underride Bar - Mobile, Alabama
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/science/earth/31pipeline.html?_r=0
Enjoy

 

[Fifelaker]

I think a lot of people hear the word "welder" and think all welders will weld metal which is true to a point. Maybe just slower but seeing as all they do is melt metal they should all do the same job which is not true. When I first started school I was somewhat under this impression. The classes and instructors have taught and showed me different along with some trial and error of my own. I strive to make every weld as good as I possibly can, perfect no but as well as my ability and knowledge allows. This test plate is interesting to me to see what this machine will do. I am getting a feel for when it is about to shut down as the arc changes slightly before it cuts out. I have learned one thing, that is stick out is more critical than it is with more power. It has a sweet spot of about 3/8" for stickout a 1/16 difference either way and quality of the weld goes downhill dramatically. I can hear it, feel it and most importantly see it. I am about ready to start the 3rd pass, I am deviating from my plan of stringers for all of the passes as it seems to be wetting in at the toes, not as much as I would like but the tests I did to set my parameters didn't show much difference. If it quits wetting in I may try stringers but for now I will weave. It looks like it will take about 6-7 passes to finish this plate as I am on #2 and it is about 1/3 of the way filled. The top pass is going to be a bear to get correct with this machine, I think it will take a few cool down periods and grinding to help the starts.

 

[Fifelaker]

There is more to it than "Inches" it is taking me about a minute per inch to get the results I want. The farther out I go the more time I am taking per inch. I will not speed up because it takes this much time (heat) to make a weld that might hold. I am pushing this thing to it's limits. I hope I have enough wire to finish this or it's going to be tomorrow afternoon before I will get more wire and time. The wider the bead the less it can weld per duty cycle. It will still run the same amount of wire (per cycle) but less forward travel if that makes sense.

 

[Sodo]

Mudd can you ignore threads? That may help the topic.

This test plate is interesting to me to see what this machine will do.

Also shows what tricks weldORs have up their sleeves. 3/8" is fully DOUBLE of the 3/16" it says on the box, if it can't work then we can goto 1/4" with lessons learned but why not shoot the works?

I think it will take a few cool down periods and grinding to help the starts.

I thought that I had to weld the whole thing as quick as possible, trying to keep that trigger pulled to retain the little heat available. Are you referring to cooling the workpiece, or letting your MIG cool down?