Is it okay to use 15w-40 in my b7500? The manual says 10w-30 or 10w-40 depending upon the ambient temp. What does 10w-40 mean. I thought I knew what it meant until a friend asked me to explain. I know it has something to do with the oil having different viscosity when it's hot or cold. Please help me understand...
15w-40 rotella
- Thread starter BILLMAN
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cowboydoc
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You bet Bill. Rotella is one of the few oils that was designed specifically for diesel use. Alot of oil may be approved for diesel use but that doesn't mean it was engineered for diesels. I buy it by the 55 gallon drum and use it in all my diesels. Don't use it in gas engines though.
Bird
Rest in Peace
<font color=blue>What does 10w-40 mean.</font color=blue>
Billman, you can do a search on Google.com and find all kinds of scientific explanations, but <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change.htm>click here</A> for what I think is a pretty good plain language explanation.
<font color=blue>Is it okay to use 15w-40 in my b7500?</font color=blue>
No only OK, as Cowboydoc said, but in my opinion the best for your tractor.
Billman, you can do a search on Google.com and find all kinds of scientific explanations, but <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change.htm>click here</A> for what I think is a pretty good plain language explanation.
<font color=blue>Is it okay to use 15w-40 in my b7500?</font color=blue>
No only OK, as Cowboydoc said, but in my opinion the best for your tractor.
Bird
Rest in Peace
Billman, I'm no engineer, but at least in theory, the 15W-40 is a little thicker than 10W-40 when cold, and the same thickness when hot.
No.........................40W is 40W is 40W.
The multi viscosity rating simply means that the oil will flow with the same properties of a 40W oil at it's hottest rated operating range and flow with the same properties of a 10W oil at it's coldest rated operating range. It is all in the additives.
Think of it in the same way you would think of a water/antifreeze mix. Water freezes at 32 F. Add a little antifreeze and you lower the point at which it will freeze.
Same for oil. Take a 40W oil and add stuff that lowers the point at which it will thicken and not flow. But, it still has to remain a 40W to retain that rating.
Better living through chemicals........................
The multi viscosity rating simply means that the oil will flow with the same properties of a 40W oil at it's hottest rated operating range and flow with the same properties of a 10W oil at it's coldest rated operating range. It is all in the additives.
Think of it in the same way you would think of a water/antifreeze mix. Water freezes at 32 F. Add a little antifreeze and you lower the point at which it will freeze.
Same for oil. Take a 40W oil and add stuff that lowers the point at which it will thicken and not flow. But, it still has to remain a 40W to retain that rating.
Better living through chemicals........................
JATO_RaT
Veteran Member
Besides Shell Oils Rotella, Valvoline Fleet, Castrol, Chevron Delo, Penzoil, Quaker State, Amsoil (synthetic), Redline (synthetic) are a few more manufactuers of oils for diesel engines, many of which can be used in gasoline motors. NAPA stores carry their label 15W40 diesel oil which to my understanding is made by Valvoline. I think I have used them all except Quaker State and everyone lubricated the engine very succesfully. Rat...
n6ckv
Bronze Member
I have stayed out of the lubricant discussions for a long time. First let me say that I am not a lubricant expert. Second I will say that my dad was. He was a/the industral lubricant marketing engineer at Standard Oil of California (SOCAL/Chevron) for 28 years. He handled all lubricants except for aircraft lubircants. He did everythig from food machinery lubricants, to motor oil.
A quick history of Oil for Diesel engines (for reference see page 105 of "Caterpillar" by Randy Leffingwell). The first Cat Diesels has problems with sticky rings, the problem was worse when the engines were run with the asphalt based oils from the east coast. They ran better when running on the paraffin based oils from the west coast (Standard and Shell). Cat work with Standard Oil ot develope the first detergent oil (Delo). Shell soon followed with Rotella. Th interesting comment in the book is that the drill rings for the oil companies has to use either Standard or Shell products in the Diesels (it did not take them long to develope their own detergent oils). i remember when dad did the introduction of the first multi-viscoity oils to his customers. I also remeber the developement of the first synthetic oils.
The synthetics were developed to handle the problems encountered by the equipement operating on the North Slope. It was so cold that the paraffin in the oil would solidify, so the oil companies deveoped oils without a paraffin base.
My dad thought that synthetics were based used in extreme conditions (hot/cold), and that if the equipment was operating in normal contiditions it was better to spent one's money changing the oil more often rather than using synthetics.
I use Delo in my L3450. My dad said to use it in everything (cars etc).
As far as the viscosity ratings, you will find that the newer oils cover a wider range (15w-40 vs. 10w-30), it is ok to use an oil with a wider rating. Over time (to keep stocking and manufacturing issues down) you will only find the oil with the wider rating as the older rated ol is phased out.
All the major manufactures relable their oil for ohter customers (like Sears, NAPA, the car/tractor dealers). The contracts are for several years and the oil company may change from contract to contract, so when you buy a relabled oil you have no way of knowing which oil comapny made it. When I was in high school we used Sears because my dad had their contract, I do not know who has it now.
carl
A quick history of Oil for Diesel engines (for reference see page 105 of "Caterpillar" by Randy Leffingwell). The first Cat Diesels has problems with sticky rings, the problem was worse when the engines were run with the asphalt based oils from the east coast. They ran better when running on the paraffin based oils from the west coast (Standard and Shell). Cat work with Standard Oil ot develope the first detergent oil (Delo). Shell soon followed with Rotella. Th interesting comment in the book is that the drill rings for the oil companies has to use either Standard or Shell products in the Diesels (it did not take them long to develope their own detergent oils). i remember when dad did the introduction of the first multi-viscoity oils to his customers. I also remeber the developement of the first synthetic oils.
The synthetics were developed to handle the problems encountered by the equipement operating on the North Slope. It was so cold that the paraffin in the oil would solidify, so the oil companies deveoped oils without a paraffin base.
My dad thought that synthetics were based used in extreme conditions (hot/cold), and that if the equipment was operating in normal contiditions it was better to spent one's money changing the oil more often rather than using synthetics.
I use Delo in my L3450. My dad said to use it in everything (cars etc).
As far as the viscosity ratings, you will find that the newer oils cover a wider range (15w-40 vs. 10w-30), it is ok to use an oil with a wider rating. Over time (to keep stocking and manufacturing issues down) you will only find the oil with the wider rating as the older rated ol is phased out.
All the major manufactures relable their oil for ohter customers (like Sears, NAPA, the car/tractor dealers). The contracts are for several years and the oil company may change from contract to contract, so when you buy a relabled oil you have no way of knowing which oil comapny made it. When I was in high school we used Sears because my dad had their contract, I do not know who has it now.
carl
Very interesting post. I have been wondering if I could use a diesel rated oil in gasoline engines. According to your post it would seem that it is OK. I always thought that there were special additives in diesel oil that may gum up a gas motor? Is it really safe to use?
ekrampitzjr
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If your gasoline engine permits use of 15W40 viscosity--and be warned that few actually do, so see your owner's manual--then diesel-rated oil of this viscosity should be fine. Diesel-rated oil with a Cx rating usually also has an API SJ rating, meaning that it is good for gasoline engines. However, some diesel oils may not have the newest SL rating, which would be an issue only in the newest cars (2001 and 2002), most of which use far thinner viscosities such as 5W20 anyway.
Diesel oils aren't the problem. Usually they meet gasoline engine specs as well. The problem is that most gasoline-rated oils aren't diesel rated. Be wary of using regular "car" motor oil in a diesel unless it bears a Cx rating. A new CI-4 rating becomes effective later this year, by the way. It is meant for the new diesels meeting 2004 emissions regs.
Diesel oils aren't the problem. Usually they meet gasoline engine specs as well. The problem is that most gasoline-rated oils aren't diesel rated. Be wary of using regular "car" motor oil in a diesel unless it bears a Cx rating. A new CI-4 rating becomes effective later this year, by the way. It is meant for the new diesels meeting 2004 emissions regs.
cowboydoc
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I'm not an oil expert but I did consult Shell on this one. They said to absolutely NOT use Shell Rotella in a gasoline engine. They said that the Rotella was formulated for diesel engines and that some of the detergents and especially the soot control formula was not approved for gasoline engines.
I buy it by the 55 gallon drums and wanted to just use it in everything but it was a no go after talking to Shell.
I buy it by the 55 gallon drums and wanted to just use it in everything but it was a no go after talking to Shell.
SimS
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Richard;
I, like you, thought that Rotella could "go both ways". Your Shell expert contradicts what Shell is putting up on their Rotella web site. Is this another one of those oil threads where end up chasing our tails for the correct info?
Check this out: <A target="_blank" HREF=https://thegenesisnetwork.equilon.com/genesis/prodinfopdf/out/ROTELLA%20T%20MG.pdf>https://thegenesisnetwork.equilon.com/genesis/prodinfopdf/out/ROTELLA%20T%20MG.pdf</A>
Sign me Confused
Sim
I, like you, thought that Rotella could "go both ways". Your Shell expert contradicts what Shell is putting up on their Rotella web site. Is this another one of those oil threads where end up chasing our tails for the correct info?
Check this out: <A target="_blank" HREF=https://thegenesisnetwork.equilon.com/genesis/prodinfopdf/out/ROTELLA%20T%20MG.pdf>https://thegenesisnetwork.equilon.com/genesis/prodinfopdf/out/ROTELLA%20T%20MG.pdf</A>
Sign me Confused
Sim
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How the heck can it have an SJ rating if it can't be used in gasoline engines?
cowboydoc
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I very well could be wrong and it looks like I am from that newsletter. I was thinking about it and it may have been a few years ago that I called them. At that time they specifically said not to use it for gasoline engines. To be honest this really makes me ecstatic as now I can use it to change the oil in my gas vehicles!!!
Youare
Platinum Member
This past May I attended an Expo for the machine tool industry here on the east coast. There was a display booth for Shell Oil products, lubricants and coolants. I stopped and asked the rep. if I could use Rotella in both my gas engine and diesel.
He told me not to use it in the gas engines. The reason being that newer engines have smaller oil return holes in the upper valve train area. Rotella stays thicker when hot and does not drain as quiclky back to the oil pan. Newer engines are designed to run on lower viscosity oils for better gas mileage.
An intresting thing is I looked at the contianer of Rotella I have and it says that it is for diesel and gasoline engines. It does say gas engines 2001 and prior.
I will use it in my Kubota and right now I am using it in my 1995 Dodge pick-up with the 318 cid engine and my 1991 3.3 liter Oldsmobile. I too was looking to use one oil for everything, I still plan on it.
Randy
He told me not to use it in the gas engines. The reason being that newer engines have smaller oil return holes in the upper valve train area. Rotella stays thicker when hot and does not drain as quiclky back to the oil pan. Newer engines are designed to run on lower viscosity oils for better gas mileage.
An intresting thing is I looked at the contianer of Rotella I have and it says that it is for diesel and gasoline engines. It does say gas engines 2001 and prior.
I will use it in my Kubota and right now I am using it in my 1995 Dodge pick-up with the 318 cid engine and my 1991 3.3 liter Oldsmobile. I too was looking to use one oil for everything, I still plan on it.
Randy
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15-40 Rotella T is a mixed fleet oil and is designed to be used in diesel and gasoline engines. I did use it in all the four-stroke engines I owned, But my new truck uses 5-30W. At work we used it in all the rolling stock cars,trucks,cherry pickers and dozers.
NY_Yankees_Fan
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I was reading on the attached web site and came across the following from the Shell Resident Expert on Rotella 15-40.
Question:
What is the coldest temperature that you recommend using
15W-40w?
Answer:
The coldest temperature for using viscosity grades depends on the specific application. The manufacturer usually specifies this in their owner's manual.
Generally, SAE 15W-40 permits cranking and proper oil flow down to about plus 5 ° F.
With this in mind, I think next year I will install a block heater and switch to ROTELLA T SAE 10W-30 but its availability is limited, or switch to ROTELLA T Synthetic SAE 5W-40 year round. I picked up a gallon of the 15-40 today at Wal-Mart. How many hours should you have on your tractor before you switch to synthetic? I am planning to change the oil and filter every 50 hours . I know the book says every 100 hours, but Dad always said the oil is the blood of the engine, keep it clean and it will last a long time. How many hours can you go with synthetic between changes?
web page
Click on the compact tractor forum
Question:
What is the coldest temperature that you recommend using
15W-40w?
Answer:
The coldest temperature for using viscosity grades depends on the specific application. The manufacturer usually specifies this in their owner's manual.
Generally, SAE 15W-40 permits cranking and proper oil flow down to about plus 5 ° F.
With this in mind, I think next year I will install a block heater and switch to ROTELLA T SAE 10W-30 but its availability is limited, or switch to ROTELLA T Synthetic SAE 5W-40 year round. I picked up a gallon of the 15-40 today at Wal-Mart. How many hours should you have on your tractor before you switch to synthetic? I am planning to change the oil and filter every 50 hours . I know the book says every 100 hours, but Dad always said the oil is the blood of the engine, keep it clean and it will last a long time. How many hours can you go with synthetic between changes?
web page
Click on the compact tractor forum
JATO_RaT
Veteran Member
There is no definitive answer to this question of a break in time that I have read. Some synthetic oil manufactuers say that no time is needed since todays engines have rings that are completely seated from the time it is first operated. That is the primary reason for "breaking in an engine" In fact, in the old days, you would use a non detergent to help seat the rings. As far as changing oil every 50 hours, you can, but to tell you the truth, the engine oil is not so much getting "dirt dirty" as it is getting darker because of various reasons, none of which are really negating the oils lubricating properties. What does happen over time is the loss of some of the effectiveness of various additives that help in viscocity indexing, oxidation to name a few. The oil filter does an effective job of insuring that the "life blood" does its job without prematurely wearing out the various componets by trapping the slight wear metal from these parts before they are sent back to lubricate. I will still change mine at 1 year or every 100 hours as the manual says. Rat...
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