2,4-D herbicide 'possibly' causes cancer in humans

[turnkey4099]

I watched my dad fight with his farm for 50 years . Over graze and spend dollars on fertilizer and chemicals. He simply swapped nickles had to take outside jobs to support the farm. I see my neighbors pour fertilizer$$$$ out on the ground. the spray$$$$ to kill the buttercups. My fields don't grow the buttercups? I actually make a profit! No fancy equiptment no morgage no bank note. When you sell grain or hay you are selling your top soil. When you use chemical fertilizer & sprays your just treating the symptoms not addressing the cause. We grow about 80% of what we eat. Im not trying to tell anyone what they ought to do. Think and do whatever you wish. You the one who has to live with the results of your thoughts & actions.

I grew up on a farm in Idaho in the 30s and 40s (left in 1954) Still living in acrigultural country. I have seen farming go from moldboard plow everything and clean till with every rain washing topsoil away by to tons to todays no-till with rarely mud runs except during gully washers. This country out here, the Palouse of Washington, is hilly with steep slops, they farm slopes of 45 degrees an more, a flat field is and exception.

I bought my place in 1976. erected a 5' retainingwall at he bottom of a field slope. At that time the top of the retining wall was level with the 'plow berm) (yes it was still being plowed then). Today the berm is about 2' above the wall. They are, however, using no-till now.

It always amazed me during the plow era that farmers couldn't see that they were moving the entire surface of the field 16 to 18" sideways every time the plowed and then wondered why the hill tops were turning into clay knobs.


Harry K

 

[rswyan]

As an aside, there's an interesting documentary running on Pivot (tv channel) about Colony Collapse Disorder affecting honeybees ... appears it may be caused by systemic pesticides (Gaucho, Poncho and the like ?):

Vanishing Of The Bees

 

[RalphVa]

In Europe, they've outlawed systemic insecticides like the neoniconides (sp?). The most often-used ones by many homeowners here is something called imidicloprid.

I really think we all need to do what Old Junk Man is doing.

Ralph

 

[foreman Etexas]

We are a lot better since I got my private applicators license. I keep my place profitable by keeping the weeds away for more grass and the insects (grasshoppers/army worms) from eating the cows grass. Fertilizer increases my hay yields by 3 times on a good year,compared to nothing. Hay gets fed on same place. You put in the ground what you take out. To each his own as said.

 

[Old Junk Man]

Honey bees are something I know about. I used to run into wild bees in hollow trees when clearing land. I would cut the log and take them home. transferred them to patented hives. Its the Avorra mite that killed the bees. The trucking of large numbers of bees for pollination caused the spread of the mites. A worker bee during the honey flow wears out and dies in a couple of weeks. not long enough to absorb enough pesticides for any real threat. and honeybees are not native to the Americas. other insects can do the pollination. Now Everything in on or about the planet is a natural thing. Granted much of it like a snakes poison or gas from a volcano vent . can be harmful to organic life. yet those same things are food for some type of living organism. The planet eventually recycles every single thing. It all returns back in some manner, some how, some way at sometime. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So just as many so called good positive things happen and bad negative things. A example is that top soil that washed away. It went someplace else and made things grow better. Washing from one place to a different place didn't reduce the amount on the planet one speck. Its a wash Even Steven. I don't like greenies one bit. Man cant change or mitigate anything. Because you cannot take something and make it into nothing. And you cant take nothing and make it into something. Whatever a person wants to do on or with his own land as long as it don't adversely affect his neighbors is his own business. Many folks are very fond of trying to tell others what they ought to do. Im not one of those people.

 

[Sodo]

So just as many so called good positive things happen and bad negative things. A example is that top soil that washed away. It went someplace else and made things grow better. Washing from one place to a different place didn't reduce the amount on the planet one speck. Its a wash Even Steven.

Agreed, preserving the earth "for people" is sort of selfish. True its just a preference, and just a matter of time,,,,,but I prefer the topsoil on the farmland "now".

Washing topsoil to the ocean and waiting 50million years for it to rise up again doesn't satisfy me. Or waiting 50,000 years for bees to adjust to chemicals. Call me selfish.

 

[Old Junk Man]

In Europe, they've outlawed systemic insecticides like the neoniconides (sp?). The most often-used ones by many homeowners here is something called imidicloprid.

I really think we all need to do what Old Junk Man is doing.

Ralph

The trouble with everyone doing what Im doing is the yields will suffer. I simply don't produce a large excess beyond my own needs. Its a very small number of agribuisnessmen who grow the bulk of the feed & fiber that feed,s everyone. To be realistic that's the way it stacks up. However the government isn't paying me subsidy payments. And the bulk of the big ag guys make more income from the bown envelopes they farm than what they grow. Go to the Farm Subsidy data base to see how much you neighbor has received. Now I can hear the grumbling already( don't talk about farmers with your mouth full) Yet almost nothing those guys grow can be taken directly from their place and set at the table. it all require further processing. how many raise a garden? Milk a cow? slaughter their own meat? Most get almost 100%of what they eat from the store or fast food place. and they are fat & overweight or obese. There hormone fed kids are fat with a pot gut. and the grow large breast at 12 years old. even the little boys need a bra! Im 64 and lean. Im healthy and can out work most 30 year olds. I haven't seen a doctor in years. I only went back them to get my health card required to drive semi truck. Now these are just my opinions. think as do whatever you wish. Your the one who has to live and deal with the results of your activities.

 

[Old Junk Man]

Agreed, preserving the earth "for people" is sort of selfish. True its just a preference, and just a matter of time,,,,,but I prefer the topsoil on the farmland "now".

Washing topsoil to the ocean and waiting 50million years for it to rise up again doesn't satisfy me. Or waiting 50,000 years for bees to adjust to chemicals. Call me selfish.

its human nature to be selfish and be service to self. Its one of those things that if you are service to self and take care of you and yours and everyone else took care of them & thiers it would be pretty good. Nothing wrong with healthy greed & competition. Yet the alluvial deposits that enter the ocean at the gulf feed all the sea life that abounds in the gulf stream. The planet is countinually changing & adjusting. Its not static. There is not any such thing as a balance of nature. There isn't a normal or optimal climate. And nobody has the authority or right to declare what the climate should be. I prefer to take care of my domain the way that benefits me and mine . And even if I might strongly disagreed with whatever another person was doing with their own property. I will fight to defend their right to do as they wish on their own land. And pesticides didn't kill the bees. There where plenty of bees for decades down in the bottomlands where everything is sprayed. It was the avorra mite. The bees in Europe are resistant to it. The Bees here didn't have the mites presense for about 200 years and lost their resistance. There are wild hives coming back that have resistance to the avorra mites. The bees will rebound within a decade.

 

[Sodo]

I will fight to defend their right to do as they wish on their own land.

What if they are polluting your stream or your groundwater NOW? Or your air? Would your liberal approval extend to a huge multinational corporation (or Chinese owned company?) if they became owner of your neighboring property? Lets say their only concern is profit. NOW. This is - or will be - a reality for many rural people.

Junkman I am in orchard country, and have not heard your optimism with regards to pollinators from the orchardists.

 

[Sodo]

its human nature to be selfish and be service to self. Its one of those things that if you are service to self and take care of you and yours and everyone else took care of them & thiers it would be pretty good. Nothing wrong with healthy greed & competition.

That's been done - Genghis Khan did that. I'm glad I was not in his path. I prefer the modern way even if some folks (who can't or don't read history) think "it's worse than ever".

I think the free-for-all you prescribe will cause sorrow for your grandkids (if there are any) and others. But some will profit of course and maybe they deserve it. Lets all hold hands and wish profit to the multinational corporations involved, and to heck with the danged greenies!

That sure sounds strange doesn't it ?