2,4-D herbicide 'possibly' causes cancer in humans

[Old Junk Man]

What If they are polluting my stream or groundwater? Well that crosses the line of adversely affecting their neighbors. And its actually happening In my county right at this moment. Thousands of additional chicken grower houses are being built. And they really smell. That is Air pollution to me. And the runoff from the litter being spread on the fields Is getting into the streams. We Have decided to relocate fartherwest. There are more reasons to leave than to stay. The taxes are going up. The chicken hauler trucks have already beat up the roads. the elevation is too low. If the New Madrid went much of this area would liquefy. and might be permanently flooded. See the US Navy future map. The town is dying and there are not any jobs worth having. part time at wally world is the best employer in town. So Ive been looking at Searcy county land about a 100 miles west. Too much rock there to build chicken grower houses. The big agri business farmers in the bottoms are quickly depleting the Sparta aquifer. The elected officials will not practice fiscal responsibility. Yep Its time to vamoose. One thought we don't have a democracy. We are supposed to be a Republic. A Republic where the god given rights outlined in the Counstition & bill of Rights of the individual out weigh the wishes 7 wants of the many. Even if the few is just one person and the many is everyone else. A Democracy is Mob Rule. A Democracy is two Wolves and ! sheep voting on what to eat for supper. I had planned to draw my Social Security Ponzi Check and play hobby farm & trucks & tractors the rest of my days. Unfortunately that's not what my future holds.

 

[Old Junk Man]

That's been done - Genghis Khan did that. I'm glad I was not in his path. I prefer the modern way even if some folks (who can't or don't read history) think "it's worse than ever".

I think the free-for-all you prescribe will cause sorrow for your grandkids (if there are any) and others. But some will profit of course and maybe they deserve it. Lets all hold hands and wish profit to the multinational corporations involved, and to heck with the danged greenies!

That sure sounds strange doesn't it ?

Strange. Who knows what life will bring. Everyone taking care of them & theirs would be preferable to the present situation of too many parasite takers and too few producing makers. The present ratio of takers versus makers is not sustainable!

 

[Sodo]

The present ratio of takers versus makers is not sustainable!

Can't really argue with that. On many counts. What do you think of Halliburton. Taker or Maker? Is Monsanto a Taker or Maker? Are the chicken grower houses takers or makers? Certainly they make something but should they be allowed to take all they're taking? The welfare moms bug me some but these big fellas take more than the welfare moms & social security scammers do. I'd like to put them all on a diet.

A Democracy is two Wolves and ! sheep voting on what to eat for supper.

I hear that often these days and wonder where it came from, and who it is, re-defining democracy for us. Also wonder what (regular) people expect to gain from jumping on that bandwagon. I'm reading a book about the life and times of Thomas Jefferson, haven't seen that angle.

The power of the vote is to oppose the wolves' power. The wolves do not need to vote, they must be forced to accommodate the power of the vote. The saying you quoted just doesn't make any sense, and doesn't sound like the USA that I know. Also it sounds like you have an example of that where you live, makes me wonder how you've come to support it - while making plans to flee from it at the same time. One guy might say "be careful what you ask for, you might get it."

Democracy by definition is more like two sheep and a wolf voting whats for dinner. I guess that's IMHO.

 

[Old Junk Man]

now this is going to ruffle a few feathers. The definition of a taking parasite is. If whatever you do for money does not use the natural resources of the planet to make ,build, manufacture or Grow something that adds to the GDP. If you are not a link in that chain of productivity you are a parasite. now there are varying degrees of parasites and some are indeed necessary. However I think the statement that the farms could survive without the citys. but the citys cannot survive without the farms is accurate. Ok A example of a failed Democracy is Haiti. The other half of that same island is the Dominican Republic.

 

[Sodo]

However I think the statement that the farms could survive without the citys. but the citys cannot survive without the farms is accurate.

Some very small, independent farms could survive, especially those practicing self-sufficiency. And not just mouthing the words, actually DOING it. Probably 1 in 10,000 farms could do it. Probably are "greenies". Any farm dependent on petroleum, chemicals and banks would have trouble similar to the cities. I know quite a few farmers with 500-3,000 acres, while they know how to grow stuff in an agribusiness fashion they don't do it for their food - they go to Costco like everybody else.

 

[ovrszd]

We don't want to go back to a pre-chemical world. Trust me on that one.

We might, on the other hand, need to go back to a pre-chemical world. :confused3:

 

[Old Junk Man]

Im notdependent on those things . however lots of things are beyond my ability to produce. the salt &minerals I feed my livestock, things like bannas, sugar & chocolate. im not terribly opposed to chiemical fertilizer and sprays. I don't think they do any real or lasting harm. Its just for me the cost benefit ratio isn't viable. I enjoy having know how & being self reliant as much as possible. Like I stated before We grow 80% of what we eat. And its a lot of work. Heck I should be dead according to the cancer fear **** folks. Ive drank gasoline siphoning it. And it was the good leaded stuff. Ive cleaned parts in gas & diesel with my bare hands. Ive blown the asbestos dust from brakes with a air hose. breathed exhaust & blow by fumes. Ive been covered in oil & grease doing mech work. My hands used to be black from the grown in oily dirt. Yet here I am healthy and no cancer. Of course no one in my family has died from cancer. Even those who chain smoked? To some of those cancer fear folks almost everything causes cancer.

 

[Sodo]

We don't want to go back to a pre-chemical world. Trust me on that one.
We might, on the other hand, need to go back to a pre-chemical world. :confused3:

Theres no putting the genie back in the bottle. But we can demand that our government protect us from some chemicals, like in our food, air, water etc. That is a perfect use of government, IMHO. Provided it's under the peoples control, as opposed to industry control. I think there is some of each, perhaps a little too much industry control.

Heck I should be dead according to the cancer fear **** folks. Ive drank gasoline siphoning it. And it was the good leaded stuff. Ive cleaned parts in gas & diesel with my bare hands. Ive blown the asbestos dust from brakes with a air hose. breathed exhaust & blow by fumes. Ive been covered in oil & grease doing mech work. My hands used to be black from the grown in oily dirt. Yet here I am healthy and no cancer.

That sounds like me and my dad, every word you wrote. Except my dad was also irradiated in the south Pacific, testing nuclear bombs in the '50s. My dad is really old, no cancer, he's pretty much run out of time to get cancer. Hope I have at least THOSE genes.

My Father-in-law did all you wrote too but for him trouble started at 68 and he was gone at 72. Luckily we had some pretty good times in those 4 years.

Everybody's different and so are their conditions.

 

[tjkadar]

The US Navy Future Map is BS. The map purported to be from the US Navy is actually a map created by Gordon-Michael Scallion to describe the US after a series of cataclysmic earthquakes. He predicted this would happen in 1993. It didn't.

My job is to assess Superfund Sites and the risk they pose to human health and the environment. For the most part, the biggest detriment to human health is our own behavior regarding diet and exercise. Not exposure to chemicals in the environment. Death, barring an accident, is most often determined by your luck in the genetic poker game. Fear mongering, misinformation, pseudoscience, and outright quackery is becoming more and more prevalent with the advent of social media. People are free to believe as they wish, but it doesn't make it true.

 

[Sodo]

For the most part, the biggest detriment to human health is our own behavior regarding diet and exercise. Not exposure to chemicals in the environment.

I think you are right, many early deaths are related to diet and exercise.

What if government controls on food were lifted, such that significant amounts of our processed food came from China, would you listen to the fear mongers? Or if our produce started to come from China, would you worry about chinese herbicides?