2,4-D herbicide 'possibly' causes cancer in humans

[tjkadar]

I think you are right, many early deaths are related to diet and exercise.

What if government controls on food were lifted, such that significant amounts of our processed food came from China, would you listen to the fear mongers? Or if our produce started to come from China, would you worry about chinese herbicides?

I don't worry about 'what ifs.' I worry about 'what is.' Regardless, I don't consume much in the way of processed foods. So, again, the point is moot. Other people can make their own decisions for themselves.

 

[Sodo]

Well I do envy your ability to know "what is." Theres certainly enough "what is" to be worried about at Superfund sites. But "What if" those who ran off with the profit were forced to pay to clean them up? What is paying is you and I, the US Taxpayer.

 

[dave1949]

The US Navy Future Map is BS. The map purported to be from the US Navy is actually a map created by Gordon-Michael Scallion to describe the US after a series of cataclysmic earthquakes. He predicted this would happen in 1993. It didn't.

My job is to assess Superfund Sites and the risk they pose to human health and the environment. For the most part, the biggest detriment to human health is our own behavior regarding diet and exercise. Not exposure to chemicals in the environment. Death, barring an accident, is most often determined by your luck in the genetic poker game. Fear mongering, misinformation, pseudoscience, and outright quackery is becoming more and more prevalent with the advent of social media. People are free to believe as they wish, but it doesn't make it true.

How would it be known that a given individual realized their longevity and cognitive genetic potentials? There is ongoing research around cell aging but people don't have access--yet, with a few exceptions--to a genetic profile prediction to compare with their state of health and age. Given that, it isn't possible to just write it off to "mostly genetics" even though genetics certainly plays a role. It also overlooks the fact that environmental factors can impact and alter the genetics one is born with, and I don't know of any person who has a genetic resistance to environmental neurotoxins such as lead and methylmercury. There is a reasonable certainty that people can live long lives with impaired cognitive abilities due to chemical exposure. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/12/2809.long

In the realm of "what if" and "what is", to Sodo's point, "what is" today is the result of years of efforts and funding to identify, rem-mediate and limit harmful environmental substances. That is why you have a Superfund related job after all. "What if" none of that had happened? Would you be happy with "what is" then? I doubt it.

It should be obvious that as long as new chemicals and substances are being introduced, and some used ubiquitously in large quantities, the process of identifying and limiting those with deleterious effects will never end. Our regulatory mechanisms are not designed to force a producer to prove new substances are absolutely safe alone or in combination with other substances. Those regulations also do not look at the systemic environmental impacts that are possible with widespread use. We are human guinea pigs in that regard and whatever health impacts may occur downstream are seen as a cost of doing business.

Junk and highly processed, fat and sugar-laden foods are a good example of this. Informed people realize the dangers and shortcomings; those on the lower half of the IQ Bell Curve, or just plain poorly educated, likely do not and never will. If informed people recognize the dangers, then why are those foods produced for sale? The strength of a nation resides in its people. The strength of individual people, physical and mental, relies on good nutrition and a healthy environment. No amount of toxic profits or Nanny State propaganda can alter that basic fact.

 

[Old Junk Man]

The US Navy Future Map is BS. The map purported to be from the US Navy is actually a map created by Gordon-Michael Scallion to describe the US after a series of cataclysmic earthquakes. He predicted this would happen in 1993. It didn't.

My job is to assess Superfund Sites and the risk they pose to human health and the environment. For the most part, the biggest detriment to human health is our own behavior regarding diet and exercise. Not exposure to chemicals in the environment. Death, barring an accident, is most often determined by your luck in the genetic poker game. Fear mongering, misinformation, pseudoscience, and outright quackery is becoming more and more prevalent with the advent of social media. People are free to believe as they wish, but it doesn't make it true.

Yep genetics play a big role. Now that DNA has been unraveled they could concieveably engineer a human that was so genetically superior he would make Rasputen appear sickly by comparison. They puta pig gene into the cotton plants so the boll wee vils don't bother them!The Us Navy Map shows most of the arkansas delta flooded. Ive seen 4 of the hundred year floods here in the 11 point river valley in the last ten years. our elevation at my corner is at 300 ft. my hill across the river is only 450 feet. the highest place in the county is 710 feet. the last flood closed hwy 67 both north & south of Pocahontas. flooded the jail & 911 center LoL! and it took a couple of weeks to recede. I want to get to where the elevation is about 1000 feet. Where we live now we fly the small airplanes at 1100 feet.

 

[Old Junk Man]

the commercially raised cattle hogs & chicken are fed hormone laced hot feeds that make them grow fat quickly and mature sooner. sometines healthy appearing cattle will just die in the feed lot there heads still in the trough. theyalso must inject the feeders with a battery of shots to combat diseases. the folks who eat the fast foods and commercial meats get the redisuals from the growth hormones & injected substances. that's why they are fat & obese. the children & adults are mostly tubbos today. 12 year olds grow large breast and have a pot gut. Even the litte boys need to wear a bra! That's why We raise or hunt 100% of our meat. The corn being grown is developed to have a higher syrup content also. that's why We raise a Red ear type of indian corn. It grows ten feet tall and has two and sometimes three ears per stalk.

 

[TomSeller]

We don't want to go back to a pre-chemical world. Trust me on that one.

We might, on the other hand, need to go back to a pre-chemical world. :confused3:

I have invasive plants growing on my property that never were there 30 years ago. How would we deal with that?

 

[tjkadar]

I have my job because of Love Canal. Superfund was created in response to that one particular site because a developer built a town and school on top of a hazardous waste disposal site. A site which actually exceeds the regulations of today. However, when you begin digging water and sewer lines through waste material, you will create a conduit for that waste to reach the surface and therefore expose the population. The developers and town were time and again warned by the company itself of what was there. The company was ignored.

Superfund was originally funded solely through taxes placed on the producers hazardous chemicals. Congress later changed that. So yes, at times, taxpayers fund my job. One that is so woefully underfunded we can no longer address even the simplest of sites without a Responsible Party (RP). The only time we have adequate funds is when the RP pays for the clean-up. For those particular sites, the taxpayer does not pay my salary for the site. The responsible pays the costs. Which means, for the vast majority of my employment, the taxpayer is not paying me.

Some RPs are great to work with and don't mind spending millions of dollars for a company that closed its doors more than 100 years ago (superphosphate sites). Others are extremely recalcitrant and it is akin to pulling teeth to get work done.

No, people don't have a resistance to lead or methylmercury if ingested in high enough dosages. Regardless, there must be an exposure pathway and in most cases there simply isn't. But what do I know? I've only been doing this job for 18 years. I'm sure the general public, with their Google Degrees, are far more informed than myself. Nor am I going to make myself sick with worry about the 'what ifs.' 'What ifs' are infinite. I have more than enough of 'what is,' to worry about without making up things.

Junk food exists because people buy it. The term 'junk food,' alone is a decent indicator it isn't good for you. That term was coined in 1972. It isn't news that eating that type of food isn't a healthy choice. But it doesn't stop people from consuming. It is their bodies and their choices. I'm not someone that feels I must make decisions for other people's eating habits because they are too stupid to feed themselves. I'm not going to be the people's diet nanny.

 

[MikePA]

It is their bodies and their choices. I'm not someone that feels I must make decisions for other people's eating habits because they are too stupid to feed themselves. I'm not going to be the people's diet nanny.

Sadly, the current environment of shared risk, this is no longer true. If you are a member of a health insurance risk pool that includes members with very poor eating habits, your rates will increase.

 

[aczlan]

the commercially raised cattle hogs & chicken are fed hormone laced hot feeds that make them grow fat quickly and mature sooner. sometines healthy appearing cattle will just die in the feed lot there heads still in the trough. theyalso must inject the feeders with a battery of shots to combat diseases. the folks who eat the fast foods and commercial meats get the redisuals from the growth hormones & injected substances. that's why they are fat & obese. the children & adults are mostly tubbos today. 12 year olds grow large breast and have a pot gut. Even the litte boys need to wear a bra! That's why We raise or hunt 100% of our meat.

That's more from eating junk and not exercising than because of the hormones in the meat, the human body produces a lot more of the same hormones than they will get from the meat (unless they eat a whole cow every day):

Estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone are naturally present in beef cattle. These hormones are also present in humans. Industry studies state that the contribution of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone from beef consumption is minuscule compared to the quantities produced naturally in the human body. By comparison, an adult male will produce 136,000 ng of estrogen on a given day; whereas the estrogen levels present in a 6-ounce serving of beef from a treated animal is only approximately 3.8 ng. In another word, a human being will produce almost 36,000 times the amount of estrogen in one day that would be present in a piece of beef produced with the growth hormones treated. Thus, current scientific evidence is insufficient to support the hypothesis that pubescent maturation is caused by the hormonal substance use in animals.

See also: http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/information/IBC48.pdf

On antibiotics, in milk cows, EVERY load is tested for antibiotics and if its too high (1 cow who's milk should have been dumped will trip it IIRC), the whole load is dumped (and the farmer who sent that milk is charged for the cost of the whole load).
There is a withdrawal period after a cow gets antibiotics when you cant sell her milk or the cow itself at auction. Looks like its the same with beef:

People giving antibiotics to food animals are required to follow a "withdrawal time" after treatment. The withdrawal time is a waiting period after treatment that gives the animal time to reduce the concentration of the drug in its body, and therefore in the meat (or milk or eggs) the animal produces. This withdrawal time is different for each antibiotic, and is set by the Food and Drug Administration. It reflects the point in time at which the antibiotic is at a low enough level in the animal to not result in safety problems for people eating its products.
The US Department of Agriculture's Food Safety Inspection Service (FSIS) tests for the presence of antibiotics in the carcasses of animals used for meat. Not every animal is tested, however. Carcasses are tested at random, along with "targeted" sampling of carcasses from farms that have had problems in the past. Fines and prison time are possible for people selling animals with levels of antibiotics over the limit. The numbers of violations are extremely low, and are published regularly on the FSIS website.

Aaron Z

 

[tjkadar]

Sadly, the current environment of shared risk, this is no longer true. If you are a member of a health insurance risk pool that includes members with very poor eating habits, your rates will increase.

Hence the idea of shared risk. Still does not give me carte blanche to dictate to others how or what they should eat. It does give me the right to refuse to enter into the particular health insurance plan. I am free to move locations, change jobs, immigrate to another country, etc., etc. Or, I could lobby for a change in the parameters for which health insurance costs are based. In other words, if I do well on my physical, I pay a reduced premium. If you don't, you pay a higher premium.