2.7EB vs 3.5EB?

[Paystar]

So wouldn't you end up losing boost pressure with a hole in the system? When you get a hole in the big truck it squeals like crazy, loses power and smokes.

 

[Paystar]

A waste gate to blow off excess pressure at certain RPM's is a way different scenario than having a hole in the system.

Like I say.....I'm no engineer. I just don't see this because the slightest hole or even a loose clamp causes all kinds of issues on a class 8 truck.

Especially with my Cat that makes 50 PSI boost.

Am I missing something here that I am not understanding???

I've never seen a weep hole in a class 8 truck, because we pressure test them when a driver has a low power or smoke issue or a squealing sound.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

So wouldn't you end up losing boost pressure with a hole in the system? When you get a hole in the big truck it squeals like crazy, loses power and smokes.

Engineer Mike noted:

I know at least two people have drilled the hole, so per LastResort's request, I wanted to get some before/after observations and results from drilling the hole.

And before anybody says it...
-It won't pull in dirt because there is never negative pressure there.
-It won't create an issue due to unmetered air because its not a MAF engine.
-It won't cause a decrease in boost because boost is on feedback control by the ECM.
-And finally, it won't cause a loss of engine power due to a reduction in airflow because a .050" hole will only leak .5 cfm at 15 psi.

Source: https://www.f150forum.com/f70/ecobo...le-post-your-results-here-223824/#post2925337

 

[MinnesotaEric]

A waste gate to blow off excess pressure at certain RPM's is a way different scenario than having a hole in the system.

Like I say.....I'm no engineer. I just don't see this because the slightest hole or even a loose clamp causes all kinds of issues on a class 8 truck.

Especially with my Cat that makes 50 PSI boost.

Am I missing something here that I am not understanding???

I've never seen a weep hole in a class 8 truck, because we pressure test them when a driver has a low power or smoke issue or a squealing sound.

It is a computer controlled turbo waste gate and will never loose boost between the intake and throttle plate because the ECU compensates for the tiny leak.

 

[Paystar]

Well I'll chime out now. You and your followers drill away then. Like I said, I don't buy used and it won't affect me. But it reinforces the fact that I won't ever buy into Ford's flawed system.

Maybe you are right that at low boost like 15 PSI it don't matter. But on my trucks at 24 to 50 PSI it causes all kinds of havoc.

My 2.0L VW turbo's don't have weep holes and have no water ingestion issues. And my first class 8 truck was a 1978 and my newest is a 2013 with a new one on order, and the only ones in all those years that ever had a hole in an intercooler where in the shop to have them replaced, LOL.

Trust me....any time you have drivers and there is the SLIGHTEST power loss.....you hear about it right away! LOL.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Well I'll chime out now. You and your followers drill away then. Like I said, I don't buy used and it won't affect me. But it reinforces the fact that I won't ever buy into Ford's flawed system.

Maybe you are right that at low boost like 15 PSI it don't matter. But on my trucks at 24 to 50 PSI it causes all kinds of havoc.

My 2.0L VW turbo's don't have weep holes and have no water ingestion issues. And my first class 8 truck was a 1978 and my newest is a 2013 with a new one on order, and the only ones in all those years that ever had a hole in an intercooler where in the shop to have them replaced, LOL.

Trust me....any time you have drivers and there is the SLIGHTEST power loss.....you hear about it right away! LOL.

It is a gas engine, not a diesel. I could have a giant hole in the intake runner before the throttle plate and so long as I have excessive pressure regulated by a computer controlled waste gate on the turbo, the ECU will keep pressure at where it is supposed to be throughout the engine map.

BTW, your VWs also have the same problem and you know what the solutions is? Yup, you got it: drilling a weep hole.

VW Common Rail TDI Intercooler Icing / hydrolock problem. - YouTube

 

[Paystar]

My VW has never had an issue. My oldest, the Tiguan is a 2010 with 105,000 miles. According to the internet it should have blown up from a bad timing chain tensioner by now too, LOL. And be plugged up with carbon, which the dealer will clean out for you at nice hefty price with their snake oil, LOL.

 

[Copperhead]

Turbos have gate valves to blow off excess pressure. Weep holes are on every high performance turbo application because of the pressure drop intercoolers cause on the intake side. The EPA shut dow the best practice of OEMs providing a weep hole. Here is a Caddy forum discussing the practice. Intercooler Weep Hole

Here is the 2017 Raptor guys just discovering the fix for their woes is, you got it, a 1/16" weep hole. http://www.fordraptorforum.com/f261/just-fixed-full-race-intercooler-my-raptor-2017-a-53954/

Here is a volvo loosing power because of a lack of efficiency from their intercooler loading up with condensation and the solution again is, you got it, a weep hole. 85 T5 3Hp - Loss Of Power At High Boost (Rumbling Hesitation) - FWD/AWD 1998 and Prior - Volvospeed Forums

Some do, some don't. Most modern turbos are VG and don't use waste gates. Even many of the constant geometry turbos don't use waste gates. The BW 171702 turbo on my Detroit 12.7L doesn't have a waste gate. The factory one did, but I took that rancid piece of junk off and replaced it with the BW turbo early on. Waste gate turbo housings are considerably smaller so they need a waste gate. Non waste gated turbos are larger in diameter and there is better exhaust flow thru them which equates to more efficiency and lower EGT's.

Even if a waste gate turbo is used, that is the exhaust side of the equation. Creating a leak in the intake side just makes the turbo have to work harder to develop the proper boost. Irregardless of the engine being gas or diesel. The actuator will increase the geometry of the turbo to compensate for loss of boost pressure, but it has its limits. The demand on the turbo increases.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I've got 102k on my 2012 EB. Never an issue still drives and looks like new. Quiet, smooth, solid, good performance and mileage. I was planning to trade at 100k but it is such a good vehicle I decided to keep running it. No mods, although I have been reading internet stories that the engine will blow up since before I bought it.

 

[aczlan]

Some do, some don't. Most modern turbos are VG and don't use waste gates. Even many of the constant geometry turbos don't use waste gates. The BW 171702 turbo on my Detroit 12.7L doesn't have a waste gate. The factory one did, but I took that rancid piece of junk off and replaced it with the BW turbo early on. Waste gate turbo housings are considerably smaller so they need a waste gate. Non waste gated turbos are larger in diameter and there is better exhaust flow thru them which equates to more efficiency and lower EGT's.

Even if a waste gate turbo is used, that is the exhaust side of the equation. Creating a leak in the intake side just makes the turbo have to work harder to develop the proper boost. Irregardless of the engine being gas or diesel. The actuator will increase the geometry of the turbo to compensate for loss of boost pressure, but it has its limits. The demand on the turbo increases.

So, the 1/16" hole leaks 0.5 cfm at 15 psi vs (at 3000RPM) the 741CFM that the 3.5L EcoBoost engine is pushing through air intake system (or the 572CFM that the 2.7L engine is pushing through its air intake system).
Is that enough of a difference to even be noticed by the MAF?

Aaron Z