2 cycle oil

[hench861]

i went into tractor supply today to buy 50-1 2cycle oil and they were out i asked someone about it and this is what the man told me,they sold out all 2 cycle oil and it was being replaced with a synthetic blend because of the gas companies going to 40 percent ethanol,the old oil will not stay in solution in the 40 percent gas and you will burn up your saws etc,has anyone else heard this and when will th gas go to 40 per cent ethanol

 

[Skyco]

Since most cars are rated for up to 10% ethanol I don't think we'll see 40% ethanol forced on us anytime soon....

 

[Wayne County Hose]

I know a former oil company exec that seemed very knowledgable of his product. He told me that the 2 cycle oil won't mix with the ethanol and that 2 strokers probably won't last as long as they used to. Maybe Dieselpower can shed some light?

 

[RalphVa]

I'd think all they'd need to do is to add some dissolving/emulsifying agent like is in dormant oil spray (which is a very light, narrow-cut diesel) to keep the stuff in solution.

Ralph

 

[dgl24087]

It's likely more of an EPA pollution issue that is driving the change to synthetics. I have only been able to find synthetic 2 cycle for about 3 years locally.

 

[Bird]

I have a gallon of gas mixed right now with the 2 cycle Stihl oil for my string trimmer and Mantis tiller, but the new 6 pack of 2 cycle oil I got from my Stihl dealer is synthetic. I didn't even think to ask why they only had synthetic but really just figured it was because it cost so much that they make more profit. And of course that may have nothing to do with it.

 

[Marcussen]

i went into tractor supply today to buy 50-1 2cycle oil and they were out i asked someone about it and this is what the man told me,they sold out all 2 cycle oil and it was being replaced with a synthetic blend because of the gas companies going to 40 percent ethanol,the old oil will not stay in solution in the 40 percent gas and you will burn up your saws etc,has anyone else heard this and when will th gas go to 40 per cent ethanol

In oklahoma a new law requires that all gas has to be labeled to indicate the percentage of ethanol in the gas (before it required labels if it had more than 10%), most stations have stickers indicating NO ALCOHOL as a selling point. Most people don't want ethanol because of the supposed lower MPG.

I know that even less than 10% will damage some 2 cycle motors, I had to get an Echo trimmer repaired due to ethanol eating fuel lines, (the warranty did not cover the repair)

 

[droy]

Fixing to buy another string trimmer, and remember seeing a four stroke model that has "just come out" according to the box store employee. As I walked away, I remember wondering if four strokes would have a niche in the string trimmer market, with the weight disadvantage. Not likely I thought, but never even considered the ethanol angle.

 

[DieselPower]

One of the ever increasing problems for the two stroke engine manufacturers is emissions. They have standards just like auto, truck, ag equipment and off road equipment manufacturers do. As the standards get harder and harder to meet I wouldn't be surprised if in the future if two stroke gas engines are all replaced with 4 stroke engines much like happened to two stroke diesels.

Ethanol has it's own problems. It does contain less power per gallon than pure gas does. It causes some really weird deposit problems in fuel systems. I saw a turbine impeller in a fuel blending pump once that looked like it had 3 inch's of deposits on it. I was told they have to clean the blending pumps 2 or 3 times a year of the deposits caused by the ethanol. The majority of this deposit problem shouldn't effect the end user due to the detergent additive package in most gas. Ethanol does tend to deteriorate older rubber compounds. Use of newer chemical resistant rubber compounds in fuel system components eliminates these problems.

One of the big advantages in my eyes is ethanol blended gas's ability to remove water/condensation from the fuel system. If your using a ethanol blend gas then you don't need to worry about using products like ISO HEAT in the winter to prevent fuel system freeze ups, it's already in there.

Now I have to say I have not heard of any problems with ethanol blended gas and 2 stroke oils. Not saying it can't happen, just that I haven't seen it personally. The problem can most likely be taken care of with reformulation of the 2 stroke oil blend. I wouldn't be surprised if the people that have this problem are using a older oil that hasn't been reformulated yet.

 

[Patches]

Another problem with ethanol is the storage of engines using it. The owners' manual for my 4 stroke Yamaha sno-mobile advises completely draining the fuel system if (gasohol) is used to prevent corrosion damage to internal engine components, including the fuel system, cylinder walls, crankshaft and apparently every other component made of a ferrous metal, due to ethanols' ability to (attract) water.The manual specifically states treating the fuel with a fuel stabilizer is not sufficient! I think corn should be kept on the cob, served with butter and salt
Didn't mean to hi-jack the oil thread, just some info related to the topic

 

[RWEST]

I think corn should be kept on the cob, served with butter and salt

Agreed. Yummy!!

 

[Danno1]

Another problem with ethanol is the storage of engines using it. The owners' manual for my 4 stroke Yamaha sno-mobile advises completely draining the fuel system if (gasohol) is used to prevent corrosion damage to internal engine components, including the fuel system, cylinder walls, crankshaft and apparently every other component made of a ferrous metal, due to ethanols' ability to (attract) water.The manual specifically states treating the fuel with a fuel stabilizer is not sufficient! I think corn should be kept on the cob, served with butter and salt
Didn't mean to hi-jack the oil thread, just some info related to the topic

I know a mechanic who says that Startron and/or E-Zorb is formulated to be used as a gas stabilizer for alcoholic gas. Startron is avail in the boating/sports section of WallyWorld. EZ, I'm not sure. Maybe a marine store. I think both products were initially sold to solve fuel releated probs in boats.

.

 

[Volfandt]

I'm going on my 3rd season of running a 4 stroke trimmer/brush cutter and it's done such a great job I've added an edger and pole saw attachment to it. I do not miss the 2 stroker nor the mixing of oil in the fuel. Just make sure the crankcase is full of 30w (which so far it hasnt used any), add gas and go.

My chain saw is a 2 stroke and the last oil I bought for it was syn, thats all they had so I figured what the hay. I don't work the chain saw much but it's done great when I have.

 

[Skyco]

I know a mechanic who says that Startron and/or E-Zorb is formulated to be used as a gas stabilizer for alcoholic gas. Startron is avail in the boating/sports section of WallyWorld. EZ, I'm not sure. Maybe a marine store. I think both products were initially sold to solve fuel releated probs in boats.

.

Some WalMarts also carry the new Marine Stabil ( and its a nifty blue color ) intended to combat storage problems with ethanol laden gasoline...I've been using it for a few months. It, of course, costs a lot more than the regular red Stabil.

 

[Patches]

Some WalMarts also carry the new Marine Stabil ( and its a nifty blue color ) intended to combat storage problems with ethanol laden gasoline...I've been using it for a few months. It, of course, costs a lot more than the regular red Stabil.

Skyco; The marine sta-bil apparently slows the ethanol (VOC) evaportion, keeping the fuel fresher over time, but does it do anything about ethanols' inherent ability to "attract" water. This seems to be the area of concern of engine manufacturers.This is not yet a problem in this part of the country, as just a few outlets are offering a 10% blend, but I'm sure it will be in the not-to-distant future

 

[kenmac]

The only way that I know that you would have a water or moisture problem in an engine using ethanol is. That it tends to run cooler in the engine which causes condensation within the engine. I'am not aware of or if the 10% that in the gasoline mix would cause these condensate problems. When I had a drag car . I ran 100% ethanol. Which produced a vast amount of moisture in the engine.The oil in the motor was so milky & watered down ( after only 1 pass )that, I had to change the oil often .I have checked the fuel mpg in my personal vehicle with the 10% mix & with out . I get better mpg with out. My atv's even seem to run better with out 10% ethanol. That being said. It's getting harder to find gasoline around here without 10% mix. There are a couple Exxon & BP stations that have gone to 10% ethanol mix

 

[Skyco]

From the Marine Formula Stabil website-


How does MARINE Formula STA-BILï½® Ethanol Treatment and Performance Improver work, and how is it different from Regular STA-BIL?
MARINE Formula STA-BIL Ethanol Treatment is a new, enhanced formula of STA-BIL, America's top selling fuel stabilizer, that was designed to fight many of the unique problems related to ethanol in gasoline in the moisture-laden marine environment, and fights those problems in three ways:





Fights Fuel System Deposits Ethanol in gasoline acts as a solvent on the accumulated deposits in marine fuel tanks, fuel lines, carburetors, injectors. These loosened deposits can cause engine performance problems, including hard starting, rough running and stalling. MARINE Formula STA-BIL cleans-up power-robbing deposits from carburetors, fuel injectors and intake valves to improve engine performance. MARINE Formula STA-BIL contains more than FOUR TIMES the fuel system cleaner in Regular STA-BIL it is a Complete Fuel System Cleaner.

Fights Fuel System Corrosion Ethanol in gasoline attracts water from the moist marine air. Since virtually all marine fuel systems manufactured through 2007 vent to the air, the ethanol continually attracts water which can cause corrosion damage to marine fuel tanks, fuel lines, carburetors and injectors. MARINE Formula STA-BIL contains DOUBLE the corrosion preventer in Regular STA-BIL, to fight the unique problems of ethanol in gasoline in the marine environment, including marine fuel tanks which vent to the marine air.

Fights Fuel Degradation Pumped gasoline starts to degrade immediately. MARINE Formula STA-BIL keeps fuel fresh for up to 12 months in marine gas tanks. Just like Regular STA-BIL, adding MARINE Formula STA-BIL Keeps Fuel Fresh , and eliminates the need to drain fuel prior to storage.


So it appears it works by protecting from corrosion caused by the water picked up from the atmosphere by ethanol laden gas.....it apparently doesn't do anything to prevent the gas picking up the water in the first place.*
Sure wish I could find somewhere to get gasoline without the ethanol in it for my power equipment and toys. I find many stations that lack the required posting, its the law here in SC they be posted on the pump if they have ethanol and how much, but I suspect rather than actually not having ethanol, they are just in violation of the law....sort of like the one near me that has a low price out by the road for kerosine but the pump is $.20 higher....told them about it twice now and they still haven't changed the sign, for over a month, again a violation of state law.

*used to run Redline Racing 2 stroke synthetic oil in one of my dirt bikes...kept finding a water bottom in the tank and petcock filter sump. Finally determined the oil was hygroscopic removing moisture from the air. Switched back to Yamalube, a petroleum based oil, and never found water again....

 

[plowking]

In,NH some of the stations way up north didn't have to have ethanol in their gas. We run Polaris,Skidoo and Yamaha sleds. We try to buy our gas up north. Gasoline in southern counties had to get it depending on how each counties emissions results were. Rubber fuel line,carbs. can have problems in sleds from the ethanol. Even emissions for vehicles at inspections are harder in southern NH, mostly Rockingham County. Northern NH is less populated. plowking

 

[Soundguy]

Last bottle of 2 cycle oil I read said something about the ethanol /gas mix absorbing more water, etc.. and that was causeing the mix problem.. etc.

soundguy

 

[Bird]

Well, I just had a look at one of my Stihl 2-cycle oil bottles (little 2.6 oz. bottles for one gallon mix) and it says fully synthetic, biodegradable, contains a fuel stabilizer, to use 89 octane gas, but no mention of ethanol or water.