Oil & Fuel 200 hrs and NO OIL IN THE FRONT AXLE? -3120

[HawaiiOrganic]

Just brought home my first tractor ($17,800 -3120 300x w/ ballast and 60" RC 200hrs on the clock, for those keeping track)

I was checking the 'lesser' fluids that I didn't bother to do pre-sale and lo and behold the front axle is empty. I put the front on about a 15 degree slope to get the fluid over to that side, thinking "It must just be a little low" Nothing on the stick.
I know this idiot kept it in 4wd full time driving on friction packed fresh lava rock(the front tires already need replaced)

So my questions are :
(in order of stupid to stupider;


How much damage could this guy have done?

And to what?

Is that fluid only there for the power steering and the front differential?

And lastly, what do I put in there? Manual maintains extreme vagueness on this point. Found some buckets rated for jd20c. Is that what goes front and back?

Don't worry guys, I'll get a real tech. manual soon. But think of how smart you can feel explaining hydro basics to a noob.....

BTW, the power steering is still strong, so there must be something in there, but the first thing I noticed when I got on the tractor was the classic power steering whine I've come to know from my collection of leaking cars. I figured they must all sound like that, because I can hear the ehydro with it's own harmonizing whine

Thanks in advance and here's a hazy shot taken with camera phone after I finally got a tow truck driver to haul it to my place in trade for hunting pig.

 

[irvingj]

HawaiiOrganic- your tractor is a lot bigger than mine, but assuming it has a hydrostatic transmission, the set-up is probably the same: The power steering uses the same fluid & reservoir that the rear axle and transmission use- the front axle/differential is a self-contained reservoir.

On mine, access is through plugs on the top of the gearsets at the wheels; drains are below. MF recommends using the same hydraulic fluid as for the transmission, but many on this forum feel a heavier fluid is a good idea for the front axle.

All of this should be covered in the owner's manual- perhaps you could, until you get one, call the dealer.

As far as damage, once you get fluid in, see how it sounds and go from there....

 

[irvingj]

Can't really see it on your tractor, but here's the drain/fill plugs on mine. Notice mine didn't come with any dipsticks..

As far as damage-- could be horrendous, could be minor.... I know all those front axle parts are $$$! Hope it turns out OK!

 

[Cocre]

You probably hurt nothing. Each wheel hub sits way lower than the axle itself even to the point that they have their own drain plugs. They were probably still full.

The front axle fluild is self contained.

It uses the same type hydrostatic fluild - I think JD now recommends the low-vis in all climates, but their lit is confusing.

On my 3320 with nearly 400 hours, the front axle fluid is so clean that it is easily mistaken for not being on the stick. The oil is almost due to be changed, and I will do it, but it is pristine looking and way hard to read on the yellow plastic dip stick.

 

[RogerH]

I saw one front axle run out of oil (I didn't do it!) and the first symptom I was told was that the tractor lugged down, followed shortly thereafter by the front wheels locking up. When taken apart, a bearing was badly damaged and frozen. The gears were also scuffed up, but probably still would have worked.

The only way to tell for sure whether or not your axle is damaged is to take it apart. However, I would suggest lifting up the front end of the tractor, disengage the MFWD, and spinning the front wheels by hand. Listen and feel for hard to turn or rough turning or grinding. If it feels smooth, then you may have dodged a bullet.

As for oil to use, the J20C is fine for both the front and back. It is a thicker oil than J20D and will work well in Hawaii. After refilling the front axle, keep an eye out for leaks. That might be why the oil level is low. The most common issue with these axles are seal leaks at the wheel hub. The fluid in the front axle is only for lubrication of the axle. Power steering fluid comes from the rear transmission hydraulic oil.

You mention the whine. That is typical of hydrostatic transmissions. A hydrostatic transmission is an axial piston pump and motor. When you step on the foot pedal, electrical commands to the eHydro cause the pump to start pumping fluid. The more foot pedal, the more it pumps and the faster you go. The motor converts the flow back into rotary motion which goes to the transmission. The reverse foot pedal does the same thing except it cause the pump to work in reverse. I stumbled across this animation some time back that might be helpful. Click the arrow in the lower right see the pump work in forward and reverse.

http://www.poclain-hydraulics.com/portals/0/tools/training/pompes/Pompe_circuit_ferme 2.swf

Enjoy your tractor!

 

[HawaiiOrganic]

Thanks for the great info. Dealer started his 3 day weekend on the day of purchase, and the tractor is sitting there screaming at me to use it. Off to town to find a generic j20c compatible oil.
I'm thinking I should just go ahead and pull all three plugs on it cold, and refill with fresh oil.
Or would it be worth it to top it off first so I can warm it up? It's going to be real interesting to see what comes out. Will post update tonight.

 

[marco246]

Aloha, Organic,

I use Chevron 1000 THF for both my JD tractors. It meets JD J20C specs and is available in 5 gallon buckets at Akana Petroleum in Hilo.

 

[dex3361]

Just brought home my first tractor ($17,800 -3120 300x w/ ballast and 60" RC 200hrs on the clock, for those keeping track)

I was checking the 'lesser' fluids that I didn't bother to do pre-sale and lo and behold the front axle is empty. I put the front on about a 15 degree slope to get the fluid over to that side, thinking "It must just be a little low" Nothing on the stick.
I know this idiot kept it in 4wd full time driving on friction packed fresh lava rock(the front tires already need replaced)

So my questions are :
(in order of stupid to stupider;


How much damage could this guy have done?

And to what?

Is that fluid only there for the power steering and the front differential?

And lastly, what do I put in there? Manual maintains extreme vagueness on this point. Found some buckets rated for jd20c. Is that what goes front and back?

Don't worry guys, I'll get a real tech. manual soon. But think of how smart you can feel explaining hydro basics to a noob.....

BTW, the power steering is still strong, so there must be something in there, but the first thing I noticed when I got on the tractor was the classic power steering whine I've come to know from my collection of leaking cars. I figured they must all sound like that, because I can hear the ehydro with it's own harmonizing whine

Thanks in advance and here's a hazy shot taken with camera phone after I finally got a tow truck driver to haul it to my place in trade for hunting pig.

If I had just bought this tractor and got it home and it had no oil in the front end I would not use it and I would not add oil I would request it be taken back to the shop and inspected for damage. I would at least ask for a warranty for the front end for lack of oil. I would think that a large amount of damage could have already taken place if it has been run dry. Hopefully it was drained when brought in for trade in and somebody forgot to refill. This would be the best case scenario.

 

[LBrown59]

Just brought home my first tractor ($17,800 -3120 300x w/ ballast and 60" RC 200hrs on the clock, for those keeping track)

I was checking the 'lesser' fluids that I didn't bother to do pre-sale and lo and behold the front axle is empty. I put the front on about a 15 degree slope to get the fluid over to that side, thinking "It must just be a little low" Nothing on the stick.
I know this idiot kept it in 4wd full time driving on friction packed fresh lava rock(the front tires already need replaced)

So my questions are :
(in order of stupid to stupider;


How much damage could this guy have done?

And to what?

Is that fluid only there for the power steering and the front differential?

And lastly, what do I put in there? Manual maintains extreme vagueness on this point. Found some buckets rated for jd20c. Is that what goes front and back?

Don't worry guys, I'll get a real tech. manual soon. But think of how smart you can feel explaining hydro basics to a noob.....

BTW, the power steering is still strong, so there must be something in there, but the first thing I noticed when I got on the tractor was the classic power steering whine I've come to know from my collection of leaking cars. I figured they must all sound like that, because I can hear the ehydro with it's own harmonizing whine

Thanks in advance and here's a hazy shot taken with camera phone after I finally got a tow truck driver to haul it to my place in trade for hunting pig.

None: leaving it in 4wd won't harm a thing.

 

[HawaiiOrganic]

Well.. I'm at least partially f$*@#ed here. First to address some replies.

None: leaving it in 4wd won't harm a thing.

Your going to have to back that one up. The manual screams "Do not leave in 4wd on paved surface!" And that's with fluid in the axle... hmm...

If I had just bought this tractor and got it home and it had no oil in the front end I would not use it and I would not add oil I would request it be taken back to the shop and inspected for damage

No shop involved here. I bought the tractor from joe shmoe. I did however wire the money directly to John Deere to pay off the guys loan which might make something easier... not sure what...

Thumbnail 1
Okay, cracked the differential drain. The single shot glass full of love that came out had my dog hiding from my temper. Cracked the two sides. Nothing. I mean not a drop.

Thumbnail 2
Filled up with 5 liters of premium j20c goodness. mowed for an hour in 4wd. Drained. Dark, stinky, and oh-so glitery.

Thumbnail 3
Where the fluid went. I have no idea what you call this area, as this is my first tractor. If the picture is confusing, we're looking inside the tire strait up from the ground.
Both sides show considerable wear. They saw a lot of rocks. And they both started dripping at about a drop a second as soon as I filled the axle.

Question -

What's it called, how hard is it to fix, and how much will the parts cost?

If I can fix those leaks for less than $500 I can still call myself a winner... what's the verdict?

Thanks guys