220v outlet for welder powered by (2) 20 amp breakers

[CoyPatton]

The higher the input voltage (240vac) the lower amperage draw (by about 1/2), to produce same heat as in 120 volts mode... 20 amp circuit is a "bit light" even at 240v.... What does the specs in owners manual state for max current requirements... Having low input amperage breakers is going to limit how high you can turn up the heat as at some point the current draw to produce a specific amperage/voltage (translated to heat) will be more than small breakers can provide....

For simplicity of explanation, 20 amp draw on L1 and 20 amp draw on L2 at 240 volts is sort of like drawing 40 amps on 120 volts...

Dale

Simply put NOT!

 

[grsthegreat]

take a picture of the panel in question. picture worth 1000 words

 

[WranglerX]

Simply put NOT!

Where is not 120 V at 40 amp not equal to 4800 watts...

And

Where is not 240 V at 20 amps not equal to 4800 watts...

Dale

 

[GeneV]

If I understand your information correctly, you have a box with 2 separate 20 amp circuits in it.
You could have 240 volts present in this box but not necessarily! Unless you understand how a breaker box is constructed that confuses you! By your questions in opening statement, I am guessing you do not understand the construction of a breaker box.

Try to stay simple here so please police accept that qualifier!
1) You have 2 supply lines of 120 volts (and other lines) coming into the breaker panel.
2) The construction is such that from top to bottom the supplied breakers go from one to the other supply line. So that 1 & 3 and 2 & 4 number breakers as groups get power from different supply lines. (Sorry probably clear as mud). But here in is why you may not have 240 v in that empty box. Breakers in slot 2 & 3 get power from the same supply line as do breakers in slots 1 & 4.
This alternating process continues. In that breaker 2 & 6 are feed by the same supply line. Also 1 & 5 are on the same supply line. So if you look at your breaker panel you can soon grasp the alternating pattern.
3) To get 240v in a box you need a hot wire from each supply line.
4) For good reason for safety NEC requires the 2 breakers to be physically connected in the breaker panel. This is do if only 1 hot wire experiences in number of fault issues, it trips all power to that outlet.

No man, I'm familiar with breaker panels. I moved position of one of the breakers so that it's next to the other one, hence they would each be fed by separate lines. Installing a handle tie on them would turn them into a 2-pole 240v 20amp breaker...that was the plan. My issue now is that one of those breakers feeds a circuit with gcfi's on it, and they're upstream of where I want to install the 240v outlet. Jaxs is right, that won't work. That's where I'm at now, a dead end with this idea.

So, my option now is to a) have a dedicated 120v 20 amp outlet, b) if I could fish it through, run another 12 ga wire through the conduit, allowing for a 240v 20 amp outlet, or c) run new conduit with 8 gauge for 40 amp (might as well go for broke at this point).

 

[BigBlue1]

I don't know what your garage/shop situation is like, but if I were doing it I would find a way to use a new circuit and the proper sized wire for a new 220V outlet for your welder. Even if that meant putting the circuit near the electrical panel and running a heavy 220V extension cord to where you want to use the welder or running conduit outside a finished wall to do it. Working with tools like a welder or other heavy duty electrical tool is, in my view, way more satisfying when things are done right and it is set up as capably as possible. Cutting corners or trying to make due with a less than optimum setup tends to lead to frustration, limitations and problems (including the risk of fire) that can be pretty stressful. Besides, why wouldn't you want to be able to take full advantage of the welder you bought?

Rob

 

[GeneV]

I don't know what your garage/shop situation is like, but if I were doing it I would find a way to use a new circuit and the proper sized wire for a new 220V outlet for your welder. Even if that meant putting the circuit near the electrical panel and running a heavy 220V extension cord to where you want to use the welder or running conduit outside a finished wall to do it. Working with tools like a welder or other heavy duty electrical tool is, in my view, way more satisfying when things are done right and it is set up as capably as possible. Cutting corners or trying to make due with a less than optimum setup tends to lead to frustration, limitations and problems (including the risk of fire) that can be pretty stressful. Besides, why wouldn't you want to be able to take full advantage of the welder you bought?

Rob

Yeh, I'm a big fan of quick & dirty, but looks like that ain't an option here.

 

[grsthegreat]

No man, I'm familiar with breaker panels. I moved position of one of the breakers so that it's next to the other one, hence they would each be fed by separate lines. Installing a handle tie on them would turn them into a 2-pole 240v 20amp breaker...that was the plan. My issue now is that one of those breakers feeds a circuit with gcfi's on it, and they're upstream of where I want to install the 240v outlet. Jaxs is right, that won't work. That's where I'm at now, a dead end with this idea.

So, my option now is to a) have a dedicated 120v 20 amp outlet, b) if I could fish it through, run another 12 ga wire through the conduit, allowing for a 240v 20 amp outlet, or c) run new conduit with 8 gauge for 40 amp (might as well go for broke at this point).

are you sure you cant use tandem breakers or a quad breaker?

 

[Popgadget]

No man, I'm familiar with breaker panels. I moved position of one of the breakers so that it's next to the other one, hence they would each be fed by separate lines. Installing a handle tie on them would turn them into a 2-pole 240v 20amp breaker...that was the plan. My issue now is that one of those breakers feeds a circuit with gcfi's on it, and they're upstream of where I want to install the 240v outlet. Jaxs is right, that won't work. That's where I'm at now, a dead end with this idea.

So, my option now is to a) have a dedicated 120v 20 amp outlet, b) if I could fish it through, run another 12 ga wire through the conduit, allowing for a 240v 20 amp outlet, or c) run new conduit with 8 gauge for 40 amp (might as well go for broke at this point).

You do not need to fish another wire if you have a dedicated 120v circuit there now. Just use a two pole breaker and remove the wire from the neutral and connect it along with the
“Hot” wire to the two pole breaker. You only need 2 wires plus ground for the 240 circuit.
(You would need 3 for 120/240).

 

[grsthegreat]

You do not need to fish another wire if you have a dedicated 120v circuit there now. Just use a two pole breaker and remove the wire from the neutral and connect it along with the
“Hot” wire to the two pole breaker. You only need 2 wires plus ground for the 240 circuit.
(You would need 3 for 120/240).

but he said that the other breaker is feeding another circuit already. best thing to do is post a picture of the panel. he may be able to get a quad breaker and free up a 220. is it a 220 breaker in house feeding this panel? im an electrical contractor with close to 35 years experience, and im confused by what you are posting. a picture may help

 

[Popgadget]

I’m making the assumption that he has the space to add a two pole in place of the single pole. He did say that he was able to rearrange breakers, but you are right, a picture would remove a lot of speculation.