PineRidge
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Pretty informative reading there Norm. Hard to imagine even in an open cockpit of a boat being overcome with carbon monoxide poisoning, yet it still happens.
2210 carbon monoxcide posining with cab
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SkyPup
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Carbon monoxide poisoning and death even happens on gasoline powered tractors without a cab, but remember, it will not happen on a diesel powered tractor even if it does has a cab..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
PineRidge
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SkyPup maybe you should tell that to the folks that wrote the boating article. Seems a few folks out there believe that diesels still produce monoxide even at lower levels than gasoline engines do.
Good or bad I'm not one to live with what comes out the end of my exhaust stack, how about you? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Good or bad I'm not one to live with what comes out the end of my exhaust stack, how about you? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
SkyPup
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Breathing diesel exhaust is not good, but you certainly do not have to worry about being poisoned by carbon monoxide from it since there is not enough there.
Just remember the simple facts, diesels pollute the air with particulates and nitrogen oxides, not CO. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Just remember the simple facts, diesels pollute the air with particulates and nitrogen oxides, not CO. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If this was from a diesel engine in your JD you do NOT have to worry about carbon monoxide since diesels do NOT produce enough to affect a human, not that I am endorsing any long term continued human breathing of diesel exhaust due to the carcinogenic soot and PM<2.5 particulate matter. )</font>
I really wish you had researched this a little better as you are not correct. While diesels produce less CO than gasoline engines, the human body does not differentiate CO from gas or diesel. A diesel easily emits enough CO to kill a human being quickly, especially if it's building up in an enclosed compartment. CO displaces oxygen quite easily as the blood system has much more of an affintiy for the CO. It doesn't take long breathing in concentrations of CO to DIE. Please just do an internet search, and you'll find out the truth. John
I really wish you had researched this a little better as you are not correct. While diesels produce less CO than gasoline engines, the human body does not differentiate CO from gas or diesel. A diesel easily emits enough CO to kill a human being quickly, especially if it's building up in an enclosed compartment. CO displaces oxygen quite easily as the blood system has much more of an affintiy for the CO. It doesn't take long breathing in concentrations of CO to DIE. Please just do an internet search, and you'll find out the truth. John
SkyPup
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Don't worry about CO from a diesel, just be concerned about the nitrogen oxides and the particulates.
Remember, trying to commit suicide with diesel exhaust is hopeless..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Remember, trying to commit suicide with diesel exhaust is hopeless..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Because there are many variable factors that dictate the amount of CO that is emitted from a diesel engine (maintenance, age, type), it's irresponsible to equivocally state that diesels produce nearly no Carbon Monoxide. Many diesels produce as much as 50% of the amount of CO that gasoline engines produce. In an enclose area, such as the cab in question, enough CO can build up to cause major problems. Read this:
<font color="blue">Carbon monoxide is a cumulative poison. Relatively low concentrations in the atmosphere may accumulate in the victim's blood over a period of time with serious or fatal results. It is absorbed by the lungs and attaches itself to the red blood cells, much like oxygen. However, blood will bond with carbon monoxide 200 times faster than oxygen. </font>
I have read extensively regarding this issue, and basically the only sources I've read that state there is little risk with diesel engines are those for whom there is a benefit in telling this misnomer, i.e. diesel MFG companies and others who rely on diesel sales.
I certainly would not take the word of anyone regarding the amount of risk there is from CO poisoning from a diesel engine. Especially if I've displayed all the classic symptoms of a severe exposure. Even a little CO building up in such a small area makes it a real and prsent danger to any oxygen breathing being.
John
<font color="blue">Carbon monoxide is a cumulative poison. Relatively low concentrations in the atmosphere may accumulate in the victim's blood over a period of time with serious or fatal results. It is absorbed by the lungs and attaches itself to the red blood cells, much like oxygen. However, blood will bond with carbon monoxide 200 times faster than oxygen. </font>
I have read extensively regarding this issue, and basically the only sources I've read that state there is little risk with diesel engines are those for whom there is a benefit in telling this misnomer, i.e. diesel MFG companies and others who rely on diesel sales.
I certainly would not take the word of anyone regarding the amount of risk there is from CO poisoning from a diesel engine. Especially if I've displayed all the classic symptoms of a severe exposure. Even a little CO building up in such a small area makes it a real and prsent danger to any oxygen breathing being.
John
SkyPup
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Epidemological data show that diesel compression ignition induced carbon monoxide deaths are nonexistant (mostly due to the fact that no one can withstand the exposure to the high amounts of nitrogen oxides and particulates present to get such little a amount of CO), the situation is 100% reversed with spark ignition petrol engines however. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Old wives tales do die hard though. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Old wives tales do die hard though. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I simply have to pursue this line just a bit more as I would hate for anyone to misunderstand the statements made that diesel fumes don't have enough carbon monoxide to kill a human. Studies have been done and published. In the following excerpt from
THIS SITE It debunks the notion that there wasn't enough CO from diesels to kill people in **** Death Camps. Go to the site to read the full report. Yes, modern diesels may be better, but, if in putting that cab on the tractor, some part of the air intake system were blocked, the engine would produce a greater amount of CO, it would build up in the cab from entering the openings, and could KILL.
<font color="blue"> * Fumes from a diesel engine are not toxic enough to kill people.
(This claim is made with regard to the death camp of Treblinka - see file with ruling of German courts on this. In other death camps, gasoline engines were used. The method of killing was simple - people were crammed into the gas chambers, and the exhaust of powerful engines was pumped into them).
Nonsense. In a closed chamber, of course diesel fumes will kill. There was actually a study on this, and its results are reported in "The Toxicity of Fumes from a diesel Engine Under Four Different Running Conditions", by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p. 47-55. These researchers ran a few experiments in which various animals were exposed to diesel fumes, and studied the results.
In the experiments, the exhaust of a small diesel engine (568 cc, 6 BHP) was connected to a chamber 10 cubic meters (340 cubic feet) in volume, and the animals were put inside it. In all cases, the animals died. Death was swifter when the intake of air to the engine was restricted, as this causes a large increase in the amount of carbon monoxide (CO) that is emitted. (See, for instance, Diesel Engine Reference Book, by Lilly, 1985, p. 18/8, where it is stated that at a high air/fuel ratio the concentration of CO is only a few parts per million but for lower ratios (25:1) the concentration of CO can rise up to 3,000 ppm. It is very easy to restrict the air intake - the British researchers did so by partially covering the air intake opening with a piece of metal.) </font>
This just goes to show that making blanket statements as regards the safety of someone else is a bad practice. As in most instances, there are too many other factors to be point blank. John
THIS SITE It debunks the notion that there wasn't enough CO from diesels to kill people in **** Death Camps. Go to the site to read the full report. Yes, modern diesels may be better, but, if in putting that cab on the tractor, some part of the air intake system were blocked, the engine would produce a greater amount of CO, it would build up in the cab from entering the openings, and could KILL.
<font color="blue"> * Fumes from a diesel engine are not toxic enough to kill people.
(This claim is made with regard to the death camp of Treblinka - see file with ruling of German courts on this. In other death camps, gasoline engines were used. The method of killing was simple - people were crammed into the gas chambers, and the exhaust of powerful engines was pumped into them).
Nonsense. In a closed chamber, of course diesel fumes will kill. There was actually a study on this, and its results are reported in "The Toxicity of Fumes from a diesel Engine Under Four Different Running Conditions", by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p. 47-55. These researchers ran a few experiments in which various animals were exposed to diesel fumes, and studied the results.
In the experiments, the exhaust of a small diesel engine (568 cc, 6 BHP) was connected to a chamber 10 cubic meters (340 cubic feet) in volume, and the animals were put inside it. In all cases, the animals died. Death was swifter when the intake of air to the engine was restricted, as this causes a large increase in the amount of carbon monoxide (CO) that is emitted. (See, for instance, Diesel Engine Reference Book, by Lilly, 1985, p. 18/8, where it is stated that at a high air/fuel ratio the concentration of CO is only a few parts per million but for lower ratios (25:1) the concentration of CO can rise up to 3,000 ppm. It is very easy to restrict the air intake - the British researchers did so by partially covering the air intake opening with a piece of metal.) </font>
This just goes to show that making blanket statements as regards the safety of someone else is a bad practice. As in most instances, there are too many other factors to be point blank. John
SkyPup
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I agree 100% that animals forced into a closed chamber and forced to breathe 100% exhaust from any internal combustion engine will result in the death of the animals trapped inside, with gasoline fueled engines providing the swiftist most humane demise to the victims due to the extremely high levels of CO.
