2210 smokes on startup

[horseman1]

My 2210 smokes quite a bit on startup, and then seems fine after that. Is it normal for it to smoke on startup when its cold? It runs great after that.

It has 30 hours on it so far. Also, the book says to change the oil after 50 hours, but it looks pretty dirty to me, so I was wondering if I should change the oil anyway. I suspect the engine has break-in oil in it so I was leary of just changing it out.

Thanks,

Kurt

 

[RoyJackson]

Don't change that oil until you get to the 50 hour mark. As you mentioned, it is break-in oil...needs to be there.

As far as the smoking...I wouldn't worry about that either. If you send the tractor in to the dealers for the 50 hour service, you could ask about it....but as long as it doesn't continuously smoke, it's probably not a big deal.

What color is the smoke, anyway?

 

[beenthere]

I have found my Deere 4300 will smoke (white) on start up if I have been previously starting and stopping it without letting it get warmed up (before shutting it down).

If I make sure it runs long enough to get warm before shutting it off, it will start up without the white smoke. Also, when cold in the winter, heating the glo plugs for the full time will eliminate a lot of the white smoke.

Not sure your 'smoke' is caused by similar conditions. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[horseman1]

Roy and Beenthere,

Thanks very much for the info, you guys are great. The smoke is white as far as I can tell. It does seem to be worse when I dont let it warm up before shutting it down, but "warm up" is hard to tell, since there is no temperature gauge, just idiot lights /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I'll leave the oil, but I never let any of my other equipment run with oil that looks like that. BTW, it isnt using a drop of oil as far as I can tell.

I have never owned a diesel machine before, can you tell /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. The tractor sure makes short work of horse stalls and other than the smoke at startup, it runs like a champ. Maybe I just need to work it a little harder to blow the cobs out!

Thanks again,

Kurt

 

[ducati996]

I cant say that I personally would wait until 50hrs before changing the oil (in fact I didnt, and neither did my dealer)

I always figure changing fluids more frequently that what the mfg. suggests is always better.

Since Deere Hours are 1:1 only at full PTO speeds, your actual hours are double maybe? Thats more than broken in I would say...If it was me I would change away, and after the 50 HR mark, go synthetic...but again thats me /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ducati

 

[RoyJackson]

:Thanks very much for the info, you guys are great. The smoke is white as far as I can tell. It does seem to be worse when I dont let it warm up before shutting it down, but "warm up" is hard to tell, since there is no temperature gauge, just idiot lights I'll leave the oil, but I never let any of my other equipment run with oil that looks like that. BTW, it isnt using a drop of oil as far as I can tell. "

As far as warm ups...I let my 790 go about 10 minutes...or as long as it takes me to smoke a cigaret. This depends upon the ambient temperature, of course. This applies even if I'm just moving it out of the garage. If you don't let 'em warm up, you could get condensation in the exhaust system...maybe other systems as well. That might account for your white smoke, BTW. This tractor does have a temperature gauge...by the time 10 minutes have elapsed, the gauge is reading in the green. None of these machines seem to get to midrange on the gauge...

I've not had this tractor in the winter yet, but I'd always let my previous machine (a 670...very similar to the 790 except for engine displacement) idle at about 1500 RPM for about 15 minutes if it was below 40°F. I didn't normally run it too hard until the 15 minutes elapsed.

As far as the "dirtiness" of the oil...diesel engines will tend to "muddy" their oil quicker then a gasoline engine. Again..can't say I ever worried too much about it.

After the 50 hour oil change, I change the oil once a year. I don't put more then 70 or 80 hours on the tractor per year (normally less then that), so I think annnual changes are OK.

I expect this tractor to last me the rest of my life...so I will attend to maintenance.

 

[JDFANATIC]

Horesman,

My 2210 also smokes for a second at start-up and also at times when a load is applied -- ie, if the PTO is engaged at PTO rpm. This week I am coming up on the 50 hr. servicing, and is one of the things the dealer is going to look at (while he loads the tires and puts on gator blades). I don't really think anything is wrong, but it doesn't hurt to be sure. BTW, I think my smoke is more black than white.

I'll give an update towards the end of next week.

 

[Wildman1]

Normal. I use PowerService additive to the fuel and that reduces smoke almost entirely. Also increases the cetane rating.

I'd also leave the breakin oil for the full 50hrs. You could glaze the cylinder walls by not getting a full breakin and going to synthetic too early. I did my change at 55hrs, went to non-syn oil for another 50 then went to syn. At 220hrs she has burned a drop. And the oil gets black right off, like my boat's diesel. Not to worry.

 

[Wildman1]

There was another post regarding warmups and operating temps. I inquired about going to a 190 thermostat in my 2210 since my Curtis cab heater wasn't making much heat with the stock 160. I was told that the way the combustion/pre-combustion chambers are designed that "hitting it" hard before properly warmed up cracking of the cyl. heads could occur.

I went to a 190 thermostat and get the heat I need but I also let it idle at around 1800rpm for at least 5 minutes before I even pickup the FEL or rear implement. I never go to full PTO rpm for at least 10 minutes. Excessive idling will carbon up the injectors eventually.

My last post was mis-stated..the 2210 has not used a drop of oil in over 100hrs.

 

[BGL990]

My 990 blow a good bit of white smoke for a while when I first start it up. Less in the warm weather, but on a cool day (I haven't tried it below freezing yet, but maybe around +5 deg C) it will smoke pretty good for several minutes. I'm not worried about it.

I have wondered why some people seem to get very very little smoke on startup depending on their brand and model of tractor. I assume it is a just a combination of engine design, whether it has glow plugs or not (mine doesn't), and the ambient temperature. Where I live I expect I'll always see more smoke due to cold temps than someone in Texas or Arizona. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Docsknotinn]

For the first 80 hours or so mine would smoke noticealy on start up. As far as changing your oil IMO you should do it when ever you are comfortable with it. It's your machine so enjoy it your way. I changed to synthetic at 30 hours. You will NOT glaze your cylinder walls or harm your engine in any way by switching to synthetic sooner. Just make certain you are using Diesel rated synthetic. Your oil will still get black with a synthetic. The 2210 needs the oil changed FAR more often than the manufactures suggestion IMO due to the fact that it only contains 2 quarts of oil. The debate about switching to synthetic is full of tall tales. Porsche and others now come from the factory with synthetics. I believe all diesels emit some smoke on start up. As previously mentioned warm up is a good thing. If you hear knocking as you accelerate you probably need another minute of warm up. Mine only takes 3-4 minutes in normal weather, 10 in the dead of winter. I'm still wondering how those Porches ever break in with synthetic ? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I guess they just run forever ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BillyP]

<font color="blue"> ie, if the PTO is engaged at PTO rpm </font>

I'm not sure what I read is what you meant to say but you shouldn't engage the PTO at PTO rated speed. The PTO should be engaged at a much lower RPM. Somewhere a little above idle. This makes it easier on belts, clutches, shafts and so on.

 

[JDFANATIC]

Billy,

You're probably right. Usually I engage the PTO around 2000 rpm and then bring it up to 2900. But occasionally I might disengage it while cutting and then move to another location and forget to lower the rpm to re-engage it. That is when I've noticed a puff of smoke for a second or two.

 

[Dutch445]

If the engine is cold, and the weather is starting to get cold, one thing to try to help when starting is using the preheater. If you use the preheater you may notice less smoke when starting cold, and an easier start also. The 2210 has a unique way to use the preheater though, because it only preheats in the "crank" position of your keyswitch. I tell customers to move your shift lever into high or low range, then turn the key to start, it wont' start, but you will notice the dash lights dim slightly, as the preheater is drawing voltage. Let it warm up 20, 30 seconds, and then slide the shift lever back into neutral, and start the tractor. That should help it start quicker, less crank time, and less smoke.
This is the same system on the 4010, 4110, and 4115, but most people don't realize how their preheater works.
/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Cliff_Johns]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I tell customers to move your shift lever into high or low range, then turn the key to start, it wont' start, but you will notice the dash lights dim slightly, as the preheater is drawing voltage. Let it warm up 20, 30 seconds, and then slide the shift lever back into neutral, and start the tractor. That should help it start quicker, less crank time, and less smoke. )</font>

Thanks for that tip. Most helpful. I'll try that on my 4110 as it gets colder.
Cliff

 

[horseman1]

Man, you guys really know your stuff. I feel I understand this much better now. I'll try the pre-heater tip tonight when I fire it up to clean up in the back pasture. Lots of good advise here. I wonder if I could get breakin oil at the dealer, then I could change the oil and still have the breakin oil for the next 14 hours (I put 6 more on it this weekend). Otherwise, I'll just wait until 50, since I'm getting there pretty quick /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. I usually do my own maintenance on everything I own, but I have never had a diesel before.

Thanks,

Kurt

 

[JDFANATIC]

Funny,

The 2210's owner's manual doesn't say anything about a glow plug or preheater. My dealer told me about it, and when I put it in gear and turned the key one notch it did nothing. Anyhow it was spring/summer and what did I care. Yesterday I tried it again (it's getting colder here in N.E.) and for whatever reason turned the key another notch as if I were starting the tractor. The lights went on and then dimmed and the tractor started much better. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MikeFromVA]

Dutch, great hint - is that hidden in the manual somewhere? Also, you say to do this for 20-30 seconds - any problem with draining the battery?

 

[Docsknotinn]

I never had any extra draw on my battery and I used that trick all last winter after reading it here. I also agree completely with what another poster said about DFA. I never add fuel with out it any more. The noise reduction alone makes it worth it.

 

[JD2210MAN]

Hello All,

No, Glow Plugs are absolutely not in the owners manual. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
When I purchased my 2210 I could not wait and read the owners manual, I read it on line before the tractor was even delivered. So when it came time to go back to the dealer, to sign the final paper, I asked him if it had Glow Plugs because they are shown in the schematics on JDParts.
They said Deere never even told the dealership how the Glow Plugs are activated. They had to figure it out themselves. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

<font color="blue">( I tell customers to move your shift lever into high or low range, then turn the key to start, it wont' start, but you will notice the dash lights dim slightly, as the preheater is drawing voltage. Let it warm up 20, 30 seconds, and then slide the shift lever back into neutral, and start the tractor. That should help it start quicker, less crank time, and less smoke. )</font>

As for smoke... in the summer it starts with a little black smoke (I have 49 hrs today, it has not changed since hour 1). Here in Vermont the temp goes down to 40 to 60 at night in August, when it does... it's 1st start up (in the morning) has a bit more smoke but if the 1st start is at noon in 80 degree temps... there is almost no smoke. Now that it has been below freezing, I am back to using the glow plugs for 20 seconds or it will barely run for the 1st 40 seconds (and of course lots of black smoke). As the temp gets lower (-20) I expect to be using the engine heater (block heater) for an hour AND use the Glow Plugs as usual. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Re-starts done with-in an hour, in most weather, are usually smoke free. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'll have to look into the fuel additive. This is the 1st I am hearing about it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif