24T pickup issues

[AKfish]

Sounds like you're making good progress! Longer hay will help reduce the tendency for hay to fall to the sides of the pickup reel. And a stiff, binding chain is good for "hopping and jumping" - your sprockets must be in pretty good shape to keep the chain from bucking completely off!

The compression rods help to even out the feed of the hay into the chamber. Slows up those big wads from jumping into the plunger and shearing a pin, etc. - the pickup teeth can eat away at the clumps and feed into the auger.

AKfish

 

[sjbrunk0]

Ok, thanks. I am gonna bale this week so will see what I can do without the compressor rods. Please pray for me

 

[Barry Bowen]

JD did not get the baler right until they came out with the 336. A 24T is a tough baler to get everything working right on. Were the knotters working okay? Is the bale chamber and where the plunger runs straight and true? If these are okay, you may have something to work with. If you are going to be doing 20 acres, and either need the hay or are going to sell it, you will likely be much better off to get into a better baler.

As to picking up the hay in the field. I really need to see what you are doing to tell you what you need to do, but take the best shot here. A short second cutting thatchy hay, you may need to combine 3 to 6 windrows to get one baleable row. Increase the windrow size, increase ground speed some, and watch what the hay does behind the auger. Until you are running enough hay through to make it stand up the back way all the way to the top, you are not putting enough hay in the baler. When it really starts coming over the end of the auger, you may be starting to run too much through. If you can find a descent 336 or even a 224T you will be much much happier with the results.

 

[Tx Jim]

JD did not get the baler right until they came out with the 336. A 24T is a tough baler to get everything working right on.

Barry
May I ask what you're basing your statement on?? I've witnessed many 114W,116W,14T,214 and 24T's bale a lot of bales back in the 60's-80's when I worked for a JD dealer. Granted later model balers have more capacity but to state JD didn't get a baler right until the 336 is way out on a limb.

 

[Barry Bowen]

Jim,

I base this on several points. First is my experience with two 24-t's when I was a teenager on the farm. We were never able to get either to work properly no mater what was done. Now granted a good operator can do a lot to make up for a poor machine, and the opposite is also true a poor operator can take a good machine and do a poor job with it. Over all the operator is more important than the machine. When the 14 and 24 t's were new they were some of the best balers on the market, how ever they were not designed to last. Steel wear plates on steel rails is a recipe for designed obsolescence. Not sure on the 214t, but I know that when the 224t came out, it was JD's best baler to that point. The weight of the plunger is carried on bearings mostly and is infinitely rebuildable with in reason. In going to auctions over the years I have only ever seen one 24t worth having. It baled 10 acres a year for it's entire life till the farmer died in 2005. It brought 2500 at that auction as it was far from worn out. The buyer still uses it for 3000 bales of straw each year. That baler always lived inside with both owners. The majority of 24's out there now have been let go to rust and are usually not worth working with. The last one I had myself in 2000, bought at auction, what a mistake it was. I tried for two years to get it right. The chamber was rusted twisted. I stripped it for knotters and needles for my 336 at the time, and sold it for scrap. Also kept rear draw bar for thrower, and that is on my second 336 that I use now. (Had both 336's in the field last Wednesday and tied 1500 in just over 4 hours, try that with a pair of 24t's)

Jim, tell me, given the choice between a 24t and a 336 to get the job done which would you rather have? If I read this thread, this 24t sat in the hedge row for YEARS and rusted away. Now maybe you or I could get this thing going to some semblance of work-ability, but this man is a newbie. This poor guy is trying to learn to make hay and how to work on a baler. Either one of these is hard enough, but do them both at the same time? I would just like to make it easier for him with a better machine that's all.

 

[Tx Jim]

Stating that a baler is worn out and of no value is incorrect because some pads and wear plates/guides are worn is incorrect. As far as I'm aware the parts to repair are still available from JD. Having a bent twisted frame is no fault of the baler but the operators.Granted a 336 is a later,higher capacity baler but a good 24T is far from scrap. 336 had some inherit drawbacks. I've seen the plungerhead crank arm pin(which came from factory held in with a cotter pin) work it's way out and bend needles and needle frame.

The most important thing about a baler is the knotter system and you've already acknowledged that the knotters are interchangeable on 24T & 336 balers. Therefore I fail to see how 1 model over the other model will be easier to operate for a newbie.

Also 24T or 336 will require a compressor rack and compressors to bale hay successfully
.
I owned a 337 that 3 JD dealerships and multiple mechanics(including me) couldn't get it to tie successfully. It ended up in Mexico

 

[zzvyb6]

All good points but back to the OP's dilemma: He has a freebee baler that's been sitting for 8 years, an undefined mower, an undefined rake and no pixs of the hay length. The header is 'bobbing' and missing much of the hay in front of it.

From my experience, this can be caused by ground speed too low, the header drive having so much friction that the drive system actually pulls it up, too much tension in the header support springs and hay that's too short or insufficient quantity. My 336 can't pick up grass clippings and my 14T can't swallow a completed bale that's in the way and rebale it.

The 14T is a great machine to learn how balers work and whether or not you are cut out to make hay. Its not styled, so you can look at and work on all stations from standing beside it. Knotter and main drive is chain driven so you will have to learn about chains and sprockets. A couple of box wrenches and a grease gun are all it needs for in field service. Its not a CV driveline so some tractors have difficulty towing it and turning. A 4020 seems to be favorite for my 14T. No thrower or kicker though, although an ejector was an option.

A 336 is a styled machine, pretty and a lot of stuff covered up. That means you don't inspect it as often and quite a mess when you have to open her up.
Hydraulic tension, proprionic acid applicator, kicker that can launch bales into low orbit and auto lubricator. Knotter parts interchangable with other balers. A 4430 with cab and Fridgidaire is the only way to go with this train (did I mention an electric hitch to cut loose the bale wagons and pick up 2 more without leaving the cab?)

This guy is on a tight budget, not likely to buy up a 336 and power it up. Best help we can give him should be to get his machine working and functioning. This seems to be a systematic problem on this forum: Don't tell someone you have the wrong equipment, tell them a clever and constructive way to make it work if possible. Sure, I need to buy or hire a 40' crane to put my windmills up. That ain't gonna happen. I used my front end loader and a truck to set them up.

Get the machine lubricated properly; chains working freely, twine disk tension by the book, knotter drive timing correct, tucker finger clearence good, header weight in spec, rpm at 1 stroke per second, bale case tension OK, cutoff knives sharp, wiper arm friction at 10 lbs, billhook jaw pulloff at 10 lbs, twine box pullout at 10 lbs, driveline angles at zero, and hitch height at 16". Then go make some bales.

 

[Barry Bowen]

My point here that seems to be missed, is that not all 14 or 24 t's are worth putting anything into. Yes wear pads are available at the dealer, but the cost is absolutely ridiculous. 10 years ago all the new pads and wear guides for a 24t were over 1000 bucks! If the baler needs that much, it is likely too late to save, this is my main point. If you can buy stuff at dealer cost, then you can afford to do this. Since I am not a JD dealer I do not have this option.

What I am saying here is that maybe this man needs to look at another baler. Find a barn treasure, been sitting inside for the last 30 years. Then he will really have something to work with. Maybe even look at an old New Holland baler. It seemed they made better balers in that era. NH also seems to be much more easily repaired and rebuilt. Just a thought for every one to kick around. If a man has experience with balers maybe he can bring a hedge row piece back, maybe not. I am just trying to save this man one of the biggest headaches he will ever work with.

 

[raasd]

I think the point should be that some balers no matter the brand are not worth fixing up. I also don't understand the knock on the 24t. I picked a nice one up at a great price last summer. It had been sitting in a shed for the last ten years without use. I washed it up, greased it up and went to it. After adjusting the knotters I've gotten almost all the misses out of it and it runs like a dream. I have seen my 24t have some pickup problems like the OP has when the windrow is too light and the ground speed is too low.

 

[Tx Jim]

zzvyb6[/quote]This seems to be a systematic problem on this forum: Don't tell someone you have the wrong equipment, tell them a clever and constructive way to make it work if possible.[/quote]

I think it would be hard for you or me to tell over the internet if a piece of equipment justifies/not justifies repair or is the wrong implement.

What do you think "the cure is for the systematic problem" of this forum? I chose to try to help if I possibly can.