-25c My Tractor Won't Start After Being Plugged in. Help please

[Arc weld]

I think you meant to say, before Cat purchased Perkins. Didn't know Ford ran Perkins engines in a 545? I can hear the Thermo-start start heating on my 135 if I listen closely but in real cold weather, I'll sometimes have to boost the tractor to get it to spin fast enough. I leave the Thermo-start on for about a minute though. I have put a blow dryer down the air intake of the oil bath air cleaner. Perkins engines could also be had with an ether injector instead of Thermo-start. On a couple occasions when I really needed to start the tractor on a cold day, I used a small shot of ether but never touched the Thermo-start. It's also a good idea to open the throttle to full and once it starts slow in down to about 1000 rpm. If you want to heat it up relatively cheap and fast, get a weed burner/tiger torch and hook it up to a BBQ tank. This is how Cats are started in the bush. Don't throw the flame directly on the engine. What works best is to have a piece of pipe to put the torch in so just the heat comes out under the tractor. I did this to start my Hino that was very warm blooded. Barely had to open the propane valve to have tons of heat. I used stove pipe with an elbow on the end but a little heavier pipe would be better. It was parked on asphalt so I blocked the pipe up so the asphalt wouldn't melt.

 

[Agvg]

Perkins AD3-152 in the MF135 is an very well designed engine when it comes to cold start, i have one and i have started it in -18 whit out any heater og using flamestart, tok a second longer to fire it up vs ftaring a summer day. If we are talking Ford 3cyl they are known to not be very easy to start in cold weather.

 

[pat32rf]

When all the obvious things have been checked (and it sounds like you have) I'd look for a low spot in the fuel line where a bit of water may have settled and froze. Just a bit is all it will take to block the line, even with a fuel separator. When things are warmer the water melts and lets a bit of fuel past around it so its not a problem then.....

 

[JoeL4330]

The reference to wind-chill temp is generally misleading...wind-chill refers to the rate of loss of heat when heat is being produced above the ambient air temp. If the air temp is -20, say, and the block is cold-soaked (sitting for a sufficient period of time, with no block heater, etc.) then the block will be at the ambient air temp of -20...no matter what the wind chill is (no matter what the wind chill is). Wind chill begins to matter as you add heat to try and raise the block (and fuel) temp above the ambient. The more "wind chill", the more heat you have to add to raise the block/fuel each degree. That's why many have suggested tarping the engine ...or, an effective wind break or, say, shelter logic, etc. Use a thermometer to get a more accurate picture of the relevant temp under the tarp, proximal to the engine. One of those indoor-outdoor thingiess are nice, where "indoor" means under the tarp, near the block or air intake, and "outdoor" means outside the tarp. That will indicate how successful you actually are in raising the "under-hood" temp.

If you have electricity where you're parked, I would also use a trickle charger (battery tender, e.g,) and a battery warmer blanket ...run them into an "octopus" so when you plug in, you energize all (check the circuit and your extension cord to ensure you can deliver the requisite amps).

You can also buy/retrofit a fuel filter that has a heating element (look for the ones that are electric) ...and, a torpedo heater (which, conveniently, can fire the same diesel fuel) is handy...initially to warm the block, then to insure that warm air is available at the intake.

Find out if your fuel has residual water and/or will gel at the ambient temp you are experiencing: drain some fuel (from the lowest point) into a glass jar and let it sit [if none drains, you've found your problem]...inspect fuel in jar...any slush? any wax? If slushy, indicating water, replace fuel or "polish" it through, say, a water-block filter. If waxy, you need a more winterized blend ...add (white) power-service (or eq.), or thin with kero/no.1-diesel ...and/or discuss w. your fuel supplier or change suppliers. [power-service 911 (orange) can get you out of some difficulties in an emergency]

As stated, ensure your oil flows freely at ambient ...or, just switch to 0-40/50W fully synthetic (same for hydro fluid if you need hydraulics to work)

 

[MHarryE]

Here is my opportunity to show the Perkins thermostart. The first picture shows power applied to the coil. You can see the element inside the tube like housing. Holes in the sides are to allow oxygen to feed the fire. In the second picture heat from the element has opened the spray valve and the coil ignited the spray - you can see unburned fuel shooting out. This is actually a Caterpillar version - same Perkins engine painted yellow, a 3056E Tier 2 engine. The graph is information from the engine ECM on which I plotted engine speed versus the thermal start. Once the engine reached 1200 rpm it turned off the thermostart which cut the fuel flow to the manifold. Notice how smoothly the engine had been gaining speed over the 5 seconds before the thermostart cut off but then immediately started running a little rougher without the manifold heat for the next 3 seconds until it warmed enough to run on its own.

With this computer monitored system we could control lots of things - length of burn, time the coil would stay energized, etc. Most operators didn't know that with the manual system they didn't get any manifold heat until they started cranking - no fuel no fire no heat. You could, however, burn out the coil from overheating. Electric lift pump machines could get fuel sprayed and lit but without the engine cranking it would burn up all the oxygen and the fire would quickly die. It even took the techies in the lab in the UK to get it right. They first turned off the thermostart once the engine started cranking. We didn't learn that until we had new machines to ship on below zero Fahrenheit mornings and they wouldn't start. Fortunately we had a forklift with which we could pick up a 35,000 pound machine, place it on a truck, and send it south while we figured out where they had screwed up.

 

[3930dave]

Harry - many thanks for the great pics and data ! Good example of what keeps me hanging around here !

While I understand how they work, I'm not that familiar with the real world lifespans of the Thermostart element itself. Specifically, the heat-actuated fuel valve.

Assuming good quality fuel is used, what is your opinion on the operational life of the Thermostart fuel valve (Hours, years, # cold starts or whatever metric applies) ?

Rgds, D.

(P.S. - got any pics of that forklift :drool: ?)

 

[Mikey22]

IT STARTED!! Thanks all for your suggestions and expertise, this string certainly contains some valuable information that I, and I'm sure others, will refer to when they need help trouble-shooting cold starting.

After checking all the things suggested, it turns out that a wire that should be connected to the bottom side of the injection pump had been pulled off. I reconnected it and plugged the block heater in for 2 hours and bingo!

Driveway is cleared and the wife is happy. Life is good.

Have a great holiday everyone!

 

[3930dave]

Good news, glad to hear that you solved it !

This thread has reminded me to get that battery blanket I have - off the shelf, and onto the tractor ! :laughing:

Wife is happy - you owe us bigtime now !

Rgds, D.

 

[oosik]

That is GREAT news. My only cold wx problems - having my fuel gel half way down the driveway. A small portable generator and my wife's hair dryer solved that problem. I always use diesel conditioner in my winter fuel now.

 

[MHarryE]

Harry - many thanks for the great pics and data ! Good example of what keeps me hanging around here !

While I understand how they work, I'm not that familiar with the real world lifespans of the Thermostart element itself. Specifically, the heat-actuated fuel valve.

Assuming good quality fuel is used, what is your opinion on the operational life of the Thermostart fuel valve (Hours, years, # cold starts or whatever metric applies) ?

Rgds, D.

(P.S. - got any pics of that forklift :drool: ?)

This isn't the fork lift we use at the plant but it is a similar one I took a picture of when we were loading a compactor with a bit of a problem onto a truck in Abu Dhabi. I mean send a Minnesotan out to the desert to trouble shoot a series of hydrostatic failures? Now way! Bring them into the shop and let me sit in air conditioning. Well, not really the case but nobody wants to break into a hydro system out in the blowing sand so they are well prepared to haul most broken equipment into the shop. Load the fork lift onto the truck, unload at the job site, pick up the breakdown and set it on the truck. Drive the fork lift onto the truck. Anchor everything down. Attach the tractor back onto the trailer and off to town we go. When I found a pic that showed the complete forklift I felt I had to attach another pic from that folder.

I really haven't had much experience with determining the lifetime of the thermoheat. Since the products on which I worked were compactors - not many get used when it gets cold so almost all my experience was helping guys in the plant (Minneapolis) getting them started for shipping on cold winter days. Other than that I would pass on requests to Engineering from dealers needing to supply machines for out of the ordinary applications - gravel roads over permafrost in the deep of winter, customers wanting to run at 16,000 foot elevation in the Himalayas. These were out of the ordinary applications for a vibratory compactor but Caterpillar never turns down a sales opportunity and some of those challenges were so interesting I took them on myself rather than passing them off to my staff. Those more exotic applications - once the product leaves the factory they go to dealers who are so capable of handling the exotic location I would never get feedback. The setup in my pictures are from a test setup one of our mechanics made so I could send proof to Engine Division they had a software problem. They gave me feedback about why they wanted to limit heating duration (increase system life), then admitted they goofed, quickly corrected their software and we created a field program. Part of my job was tracking reliability and thermostart valves never showed up on my radar screen as being a problem. Of course I would only be able to look at failure data during the warranty (including any extended program) period.