Backhoe 3pt vs. frame mount backhoe

[MtnViewRanch]

I've heard alot of talk about there being problems with the 3 point mount, but have yet to see anything more than talk. I had a 3 point version on my b7800 wuthout any issues. That being said If I bought another one I would probably get a subframe version.

Go over to the Montana forum, there is a guy over there now that has had problems with his 3pt mount back hoe. Something about bending the mount for the top link. A link to Montana forum. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/montana/141012-i-broke-today.html

 

[medicshawn]

That's still a far cry from "Breaking a tractor in half" There was someone else on the same thread who broke their top link with no mention of a backhoe being involved. I still think it's pretty isolated.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

That's still a far cry from "Breaking a tractor in half" There was someone else on the same thread who broke their top link with no mention of a backhoe being involved. I still think it's pretty isolated.

The only reason that I posted was that you said that it was all talk, and that you had not seen or heard of any actual instances. I didn't see where you were looking for a tractor broken in half. If I had known that was what you had meant, I would not have posted, sorry for the inconvenience.

 

[Bedlam]

I am guilty of the top link breakage.
My fault, I didn't have the diagonal brace attached and was over pulling. Reaching down on a stump, this I was lucky with pulled the flange right off the base. I was not well to learn he part was 79 dollars. But If it had been the casting. ..OMG
But with it properly attached, I haven't had any troubles.Just treat it with care.
I do remember one case posted here with the top of the casting torn off. Id prefer to think of the steal bolt on flange to the casting as almost a shear pin.Rather have that rip off first
BUT again I was mostly at fault with the brace not locked in,I actually altered the brace so it can be disconnected easily and the hoe can raise higher up for clearance..But there is consequences if I don't lock it back down.
Good Luck,,,,

 

[cdaledave89]

Well I called a local dealer and they quoted me about 8K for a Woods 7' with 4 point attachment (like the Kubota BH's), a thumb and 2 yr warranty for a B7610.
Now the question I've got is can I use it on a bigger tractor when I'm ready to move up?
The backhoe is going to be worth more than the tractor.

I might be out of touch a little, but I thought that the B4672 Backhoe for the B7610 is only available in 3-pt mount. I've had the 3-pt 4672 hoe on my B7610 for 5 years with no problem. Regardless of all the horror stories of cracked cases and tractors split in half, the 3-pt BH is one of the reasons why I bought the Kubota over the New Holland. I use a mid-mount mower and don't want to remove a subframe to get the mower on. The New Holland dealer checked with the factory and they told him that it would take 2+ hours to go from MMM to backhoe! Granted, it sometimes takes me a half hour to put the loader on, take the MMM off, and put the backhoe on, but at least it's not 2 hours with me laying on my back underneath the tractor.

An important thing to keep in mind with the Kubota 3-pt hoe is that there is a special, hardened pin for the top link that must be used. Don't get this mixed up with the standard top link pin or it might break.

In my experience, the 7610 is solidly built and is able to withstand the 3-pt hoe. Just keep everything snug (link arm turnbuckles). The tractor is too light to use the full power of the hoe, as it pushes or pulls the tractor before the hydraulics stall, so I don't think you can get enough force into the tractor to break anything.

-Dave

 

[Freds]

Interesting, Dave. I'm going to call up the dealer where I got the hoe and ask about that hardened pin. Thanks.

 

[Bedlam]

Concerning the pin,
I remember getting a 'special pin' from the dealer with it. That was 25 years ago.I was younger then and didn't give it much though
so ever since, its been whatever pin I have around .
Personally, I would like to believe the pin could deform and break before the casting. Like a shear pin..
I know when mine tore free it was with the pin that came with my rake. so it was strong enough to withstand that pressure

 

[newbury]

I might be out of touch a little, but I thought that the B4672 Backhoe for the B7610 is only available in 3-pt mount. I've had the 3-pt 4672 hoe on my B7610 for 5 years with no problem. Regardless of all the horror stories of cracked cases and tractors split in half, the 3-pt BH is one of the reasons why I bought the Kubota over the New Holland. I use a mid-mount mower and don't want to remove a subframe to get the mower on. The New Holland dealer checked with the factory and they told him that it would take 2+ hours to go from MMM to backhoe! Granted, it sometimes takes me a half hour to put the loader on, take the MMM off, and put the backhoe on, but at least it's not 2 hours with me laying on my back underneath the tractor.

An important thing to keep in mind with the Kubota 3-pt hoe is that there is a special, hardened pin for the top link that must be used. Don't get this mixed up with the standard top link pin or it might break.

In my experience, the 7610 is solidly built and is able to withstand the 3-pt hoe. Just keep everything snug (link arm turnbuckles). The tractor is too light to use the full power of the hoe, as it pushes or pulls the tractor before the hydraulics stall, so I don't think you can get enough force into the tractor to break anything.

-Dave

Well that may be true for the Kubota BH. but these are Woods. I went to another Kubota dealer and he was going to sell me the same thing - a BH70X w/ 4 point attachement. But now I'm looking at a BH6000 used, but again with 4 point attachment.

 

[newbury]

I might be out of touch a little, but I thought that the B4672 Backhoe for the B7610 is only available in 3-pt mount. I've had the 3-pt 4672 hoe on my B7610 for 5 years with no problem. <snnip>
-Dave

Dave -
From your post it seems you are pretty pleased with your combo.
The one dealer told me the BH70X (~$7K) would be to big, and to me the BH6000 (~$5K) looks a little small.
Then he said there were still some B4672's in stock. And they are going for about $6K.

Looking at the specs for the BH6000 and the B4672 it seems that the B4672 has a significant increase in digging force w/ the dipperstick (1740 lbs) over the BH6000 (1180lbs).

Of course the BH70X is even higher, at 1 ton.

Do you think your B4672 is actually that much stronger than a BH6000? Most of the other specs are about the same.
BH6000 Woods Equipment Company - BH6000 (6')

B4672 Kubota Tractor Corporation B7410/B7510/B7610 Compact Tractors Attachments

BX70X showcontent

One of my main things will be digging up stumps.

Any advice appreciated.

Itchy credit card.
tia

 

[TractorBob1529]

I have a MF1529 and was wanting to put a BH on. Has anybody had any experince with a 3pt BH for the 1529 or similar models. I only heard of the bad, but if companies are making 3pt BH, there has to be something good? I would like to hear mor from folks who has 3pt BH.

 

[dfkrug]

I only heard of the bad, but if companies are making 3pt BH, there has to be something good?

What is good about using your 3-pt hitch to mount the backhoe attachment
is that it goes on fairly easily, and the manufacturer and dealer can sell a
hoe for anyone's tractor. Cheaper, too.

 

[newbury]

I have the same tractor with a Woods 70X subframe BH. I can't speak for the 3 PT type, but I really like how solid the unit feels. I supose if you change a lot 3 PT implements, it would be a plus. Personally, when I put the hoe back on after winter, it generally doesn't come off until next winter for the blower.

I'm glad to see good reports on all of them.

Recent discussions with the dealer and research on the net has turned up this:

The B7610 is one of the largest tractors for the BH6000
Kubota sells what they call a "subframe", but they actually provide a heavy duty fixed toplink, it only costs about $150.
The Woods subframe looks like it will affect ground clearance, can anyone tell me how much?

Specs on the B4672 show it to be pretty close to the BH70-X except for reach, weight is about the same.

The B4672 is specific to the Kubota's. The Woods has a much wider market, albeit w/ a $1300 mount, it will go up to a tractor with 40HP PTO.

decisions, decisions, decisions

Spec links
BH6000 Woods Equipment Company - BH6000 (6')
B4672 Kubota Tractor Corporation B7410/B7510/B7610 Compact Tractors Attachments
BH70-X, w/ weight - http://www.dot.state.mn.us/equipment/contracts/tractor_attach/16.pdf
Subframe for Woods Woods Equipment Company - Manuals

 

[dfkrug]

The Woods subframe looks like it will affect ground clearance, can anyone tell me how much?

Some Woods subframes are better than others. Where ground clearance is
most affected is in the departure angle as the mounts place the hoe pretty
far out back. I have attached a photo of one of the older ladder-style
Woods subframes...this one is for a B7800 and a Woods 7500. The ladder
part of the frame does hang pretty low underneath the tractor. Later
Woods subframes are better, but some still mount the hoe quite far out
back.

As for perfomance specs quoted by the hoe manufacturers, it is hard to
compare them as they don't usually give the test conditions. They do not
usually specify the hyd pressure at which the test is made. Some of the
hoes can easily handle 2500psi and others are limited to less than 2000psi.
Most B-series tractors and smaller deliver 2000psi or less. In comparing
hoes, I look at how they are built (gussets, pin sizes, etc.) and the sizes of
the cylinders, and the dipper stick ratio. The DS ratio and the cyl size
allows me to calculate the dipper force.

 

[newbury]

Some Woods subframes are better than others. Where ground clearance is
most affected is in the departure angle as the mounts place the hoe pretty
far out back. <snip>

Thanks, looking at the BH frame manual it seems the most worrisome for ground clearance may be the front weights (figure 9 in the manual).

 

[cdaledave89]

Do you think your B4672 is actually that much stronger than a BH6000? Most of the other specs are about the same.
.
.
.

One of my main things will be digging up stumps.

Don't know much about the BH6000 so I can't say how it compares to the B4672. I've used mine to dig up stumps and rocks and it seems to work pretty good. The only complaint is what I alluded to earlier - the tractor is just not heavy enough for the power of the hoe. The hoe will usually pull the tractor toward the stump rather than stalling the hydraulics. Then it's a pain because you have to move the tractor backwards again. Now, I don't have the rear tires filled, nor do I use weight in the loader bucket when I'm digging, so that could make a difference. On the other hand, I don't know if I'd want another 300 lb of fluid weight (kind of) on the rear axle in addition to an 850 lb backhoe. Seems like an awful lot of weight on the rear end of a small tractor.

Some one mentioned the kubota hydraulics for the 70X. I would check to be sure that you have the flow required and also check the pressure available. You'll have to de-rate the hoe digging forces according to the Kubota hydraulic pressure if it is lower than that shown in the 70X specs.

I would go with the 70X if you don't need to mow with the tractor and can deal with the subframe. It has an extra 1.5 ft of reach which WILL come in handy.

-Dave

 

[shakin]

a local bota dealer here in maine had a bota broke in half from a 3 pt hoe, with no subframe. but who knows how hard it was used.

 

[denmansoft]

I don't know about the non-kubota 3pt. mounts but my B7610 with the B4672 works fine.
If you take a look at the toplink bracket that comes with the b4672 you can see where others may have had a problem with ripping off the toplink mount. Mine uses 8 bolts onto 3 different planes on to the tractor castings. the 'toplink' is 1"x4" solid bar 18" long and uses 2 pins on the tractor end to keep everything lined up.

I upgraded my lower 3pt 'chains' to the telescoping ones to make it easier to tighten up the lower links from moving sideways.
The old turnbuckle threads would jam from bending/stretching?

I too have only heard 'talk' about 3pt hoes breaking. It would be nice to see what really breaks and what hoes/tractors this has happened to.

Be careful digging stumps with the kubota hoes. see my posts about breaking teeth!
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/118961-more-broken-backhoe-teeth.html

I have since dug out some more serious stumps without any problems.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/130116-first-garage.html#post1496863


happy digging!

 

[newbury]

I have since dug out some more serious stumps without any problems.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/130116-first-garage.html#post1496863


happy digging!

The first picture in that link with the thumb is the one Bro-Tek sent me to show the thumb on the Kubota backhoe.

 

[Bedlam]

Took some searching but here is a previous thread about the breakage. It scared the heck out of me to read and then see the casting.Its a tough way to get to 'see the guts' under the seat.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/125849-3pt-subframe-just-facts.html

 

[newbury]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/125849-3pt-subframe-just-facts-4.html#post1450127

Is the actual link to an opened rear.

It's the only semi-solid evidence in the whole thread. I think this qualifies as a candidate for Myth Busters.