3rd function valve comparison

[Steve 3650]

I am planning to install a 3rd function kit on a Mahindra 3650hst. I have read different threads here on the subject and have looked at different kits. All but one have used the same type solenoid valve [DO3] that requires a manifold. Summit Hydraulics offers a solenoid operated monoblock valve that is one piece and looks like it might take up less space. Summit claims there valve " can be used for continuous operation without failing unlike kits that use cheaper DO3 valves". Does anyone know about these and is one a better choice than the other?
Thanks,
Steve

 

[RNeumann]

I’ve never used a Summit Valve. A good DO3 is rated for continuous use. Hyvar and I assume others are fine if properly sized. Based on what you have said I don’t see any reasons to avoid the Summit valve if that meets your needs.

 

[ericm979]

The subplate lets you replace the valve without removing all the hoses, if you need to.

If you're putting the valve in the circuit between the loader valve and the 3pt it probably should have an output port that can handle full system pressure. Some valves can only handle ~300 psi and operating the downstream valve can damage them.

 

[ThisJustin]

I'm looking at the same DO3 valve myself. The advantage of the diverter valve over most of the true 3rd function solenoid valves is that you can feather the hydraulics and pick up delicate things like pipe without crushing them. The third function solenoid valves I've seen (a solenoid on each side of the block) only have open/close.

 

[Dave M7040]

I used this type of valve. It is like an A or B switch. What ever circuit is getting hydraulic power, you have complete control over that circuit.
Inexpensive but has been reliable.

Hydraulic solenoid operated selector diverter valve 12 volt DC | eBay

Make certain when buying you know the type of ports it has.
If it is BSP then better to order adapters when you order the valve rather than trying to find BSP fittings locally.
It may not have BSP but SAE but check.

Dave

 

[Steve 3650]

Thanks for the input guys, I don't think that I made my question clear.
I understand the difference between using a diverter valve and a true 3rd function valve. Both valves I mentioned are true 3rd function.
I am looking for a comparison between a DO3 valve and the Summit Hydraulics valve that I tried to create a link to below. What would be the pros or cons if any between them?
In all of the reading I have done on the subject, a DO3 valve was always used. So when I found a kit from Summit Hydraulics, that used a different valve, that they claim to be superior I am hoping someone can explain the difference. And possibly prevent me from making an expensive mistake.

Sorry but the forum won't allow me to show a link. I have about zero experience doing this so for now the best I can do is ask that you google summit hydraulic monoblock solenoid valve to see exactly what I am talking about.

Sorry again, Thanks for your help
Steve

 

[ThisJustin]

My bad, I understand now.

I don't have experience with either but I researched both and saw very few if any pros/cons to either. The one negative I did read about the DO3 came from a southern state and they were having issues with moisture getting into the hydraulics between the valve and the base of the DO3. Another con for the DO3, in my opinion, is the whole base mounting system. Seems like a PITA to find a secure, flat, accessible, and protected spot to mount it. The Summit seems easier to make it fit but that's just my opinion.

I just ordered the Summit diverter a few minutes ago, spoke to some of the folks there, seems like pretty good customer service.

 

[ericm979]

I'm looking at the same DO3 valve myself. The advantage of the diverter valve over most of the true 3rd function solenoid valves is that you can feather the hydraulics and pick up delicate things like pipe without crushing them. The third function solenoid valves I've seen (a solenoid on each side of the block) only have open/close.

I'm currently running my grapple off a rear remote. I find that at least for my dual lid grapple on my tractor, I have no need to feather the grapple. I just push the lever all the way. The lids apply force slowly enough that I can stop when the grapple's gripping hard enough. Since mine's a dual lid it's got two decent size cylinders. A single lid with one cylinder would operate twice as fast.

 

[TractorNH]

Just an FYI / word of caution. From my conversations with the folks at WR Long, their valves can be used for continuous operation as well BUT the risk isn't to the valve, it's to the tractor. Continuously flowing the fluid through a restricted orifice like a 3rd function, which is typically only a 3/8" hose vs a 1/2" hose for a rear remote, can cause excessive heat to build up in the fluid and damage the hydraulic system including seals and worse if your HST shares the same fluid reservoir.

You don't generally operate a 3rd function continously when using a plow or grapple so the restrictions aren't usually an issue.

 

[Steve 3650]

Just an FYI / word of caution. From my conversations with the folks at WR Long, their valves can be used for continuous operation as well BUT the risk isn't to the valve, it's to the tractor. Continuously flowing the fluid through a restricted orifice like a 3rd function, which is typically only a 3/8" hose vs a 1/2" hose for a rear remote, can cause excessive heat to build up in the fluid and damage the hydraulic system including seals and worse if your HST shares the same fluid reservoir.

You don't generally operate a 3rd function continously when using a plow or grapple so the restrictions aren't usually an issue.

Thanks everyone for your time and opinions.
It's tough for me to make a decision for something like this. I want to get it right the first time!
I just couldn't come up with a reason not to so I guess I'll have to get the Summit Hydraulics 3rd function kit on order.
thanks again,
Steve

 

[Dave M7040]

Thanks everyone for your time and opinions.
It's tough for me to make a decision for something like this. I want to get it right the first time!
I just couldn't come up with a reason not to so I guess I'll have to get the Summit Hydraulics 3rd function kit on order.
thanks again,
Steve

In doing the Google search you suggested, I was struck by the fact that the Summit valve only seems to have 4 ports....

You stated in the beginning you wanted a valve but never described the reason you wanted the valve.

I am concerned that you have not adequately described your plans to Summit.!

Typically you need a valve with 6 ports to control two different double acting hydraulic circuits.

Each pair of two ports goes to a double acting cylinder and the last two ports are the In from the pump and the out to the reservoir.

Dave M7040

 

[ericm979]

Dave you're thinking diverter. This is an electric SCV.

 

[Dave M7040]

Dave you're thinking diverter. This is an electric SCV.

I am not differing with you, I just don't feel from the beginning the owner has described his needs and is possibly using terms he does not fully understand.

If he really needs an electric SCV, what is he going to feed it from?

Dave M7040

 

[oldnslo]

Steve
I presume that you are looking at the cast iron monoblock from Summitt Vs a D03.

The main differences are
the monoblock is a mobile valve in that it can be configured for open loop fixed displacement pumps or closed loop variable volume pumps.

monoblock will require five hoses if used in power beyond system ie. a dedicated tank line

Functionally they will provide the same operation

No proof but I suspect there will be less pressure drop on the monoblock vs D03. This is an important consideration for true third function valves

Hopefully this information will help you understand the difference between the valves

 

[Steve 3650]

I think I understand, but I've been wrong before!
My purpose is to operate a grapple. I have not spoken directly with anyone from Summit. All information I have spoken about came from their website. My understanding is that the kit that I am looking at was designed for that specific purpose. I will try again to add this link and if it is successful you can tell if I am thinking correctly or not.

[URL="https://summit-hydraulics.com/product/hydraulic-third-function-valve-kit-w-joystick-handle-for-tractor-loader-13-gpm/"

 

[ericm979]

The 3rd function would be plumbed into the chain between the loader's PB port and the next set of valves. Which would be the 3pt if there's no other valves. The 3rd function will open and close the grapple at full speed when you press the open or close button. A diverter takes (usually) the loader's curl circuit and lets you shift it between normal operation or operating the grapple, by pressing a button on the joystick. An advantage of the diverter setup is that you can feather the grapple. A disadvantage is that you can't curl the grapple and open or close it at the same time. You can in theory with the 3rd function though in practice maybe not- if you open valves to two cylinders at the same time, the one with the least resistance moves while the other one sits there until the resistance on the first rises enough.

Loaders with regen on the curl circuit (which is common but not universal) will make the grapple act funny. I'm not exactly sure how but people who know more than me say to not do it. The diverter system requires you to center the joystick, press the button then move the joystick to one side or the other. The 3rd function just means pressing one of the buttons.

There are people happy with both systems, it's just up to you (and your curl curcuit) which you want to use.

 

[Steve 3650]

Steve
I presume that you are looking at the cast iron monoblock from Summitt Vs a D03.

The main differences are
the monoblock is a mobile valve in that it can be configured for open loop fixed displacement pumps or closed loop variable volume pumps.

monoblock will require five hoses if used in power beyond system ie. a dedicated tank line

Functionally they will provide the same operation

No proof but I suspect there will be less pressure drop on the monoblock vs D03. This is an important consideration for true third function valves

Hopefully this information will help you understand the difference between the valves

oldnslo
Thanks for helping.
I am feeling less knowledgeable all the time. If I understand you the D03 valve has 4 connections but the monoblock valve requires 5 connections. If there is less pressure drop, this would be good?
I think I should Summit and talk to someone about this potential installation?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[oldnslo]

Steve
If you look at the single spool monoblock on the Summit website it states convertible to power beyond must order conversion plug separate. I would definitely call summit to see if the 3rd function kit is set up for power beyond.

The tank port on that valve is only rated for 725 PSI.

 

[ThisJustin]

Another consideration is your tractor's pumping capacity. If you don't have the capacity to run two or three functions at once at a usable speed then a third function as you imagine it will seriously disappoint you. Here is the kit I just bought:

Hydraulic Multiplier Selector Diverter Solenoid Valve w/ Switch & Ag Coupler Kit

 

[Steve 3650]

Steve
If you look at the single spool monoblock on the Summit website it states convertible to power beyond must order conversion plug separate. I would definitely call summit to see if the 3rd function kit is set up for power beyond.

oldnslo
I spoke with a very helpful guy at Summit. You are correct. I will need a fitting that is not includeline d in the kit. The monoblock valve has a port that needs to go to the return. He said it could be teed in to the return line at the fel valve or where ever is convenient based on the location of the valves.
I'm glad I called and spoke to him.
Thanks,
Steve